For EVs to become “No-Brainers” over ICE.

[AZBill]

10 minute full charging is not practical. In order to do that the charge rate has to average 6C for that full 10 minutes. A 60kwh battery (Bolt or M3) would have to average 360kw. A vehicle with 100kwh battery would have to average 600kw. Even if the battery tech got that good, the charging infrastructure cannot handle it. Sure, it could work with a 50 mile range EV.

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[Motomax]

1 and 2 are only valid for 3 types of people. People who have never owned an EV, people who are always traveling (like every month), and for people who still buy into the whole range anxiety thing. The whole obsession with EV range is actually setting EVs back because the only focus is adding more batteries vs on efficiency. You don’t need 500mile range for your 30 mile commute (speaking for the vast majority of people).

3 is a valid point for everyone.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I used to time our family’s stops. Gas + food never took less than 45 min. Two adults, one senior and two kids. It takes 45 min with the MME if planned right w/o waiting for a charger.

When I was a kid, we would sometimes make a drive from the ranch down into the valley. Today it's about a 2 to 2.5 hour drive. Back then, with all the kids, the junker of a vehicle, the 55 mph speed limit, and all the other things, it would take 4 to 6 hours.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

1 and 2 are only valid for 3 types of people. People who have never owned an EV, people who are always traveling (like every month), and for people who still buy into the whole range anxiety thing. The whole obsession with EV range is actually setting EVs back because the only focus is adding more batteries vs on efficiency. You don’t need 500mile range for your 30 mile commute (speaking for the vast majority of people).

3 is a valid point for everyone.

I or my partner or both travel a couple times a month, for work. I don't consider 1 or 2 to be valid for us. They might be for someone else, but the CR-1 with its 312 EPA range estimate is plenty for our needs.

My partner's trip is usually a 250-300 mile round trip drive in a single day, and she usually doesn't have access to an L2 charger on the trip. She takes the 30 minute charge session to finally get a walk in after a day of sitting in meetings.

My trip is usually an 1,100 mile round trip drive, 450 there, 200 miles over a week of driving around town, going to various meetings, one or two L2 charging sessions, L1 charging every night, and 450 miles back.

 

[bp99]

I don't need fast charging or range every day, but I do several times a year. It's an important criteria for me. On road trips, I don't stop for the bathroom. I just don't need it. My typical ICE road trip is stop every 400 miles for gas and drive through. Current BEVs can't do that. Especially if you drive 80-90mph.

While you might not need quick charges for your road trip routine, the other aspect as more BEVs are on the road, is how long it takes for other cars to finish to clear up chargers for the next person. For charging infrastructure to meet future demand, the volume needs to increase. There's just not room for cars to be sitting for 45 minutes while people walk away and get lunch. Fast charging is very much a part of making this transition work.

As for range, I think the sweet spot is a car rated at 500 miles. That provides buffer for both inefficient driving and for cold weather loss of efficiency. Most people don't buy separate cars for commuting and driving. They buy a single car that meets all needs they have throughout the year.

 

[BigMach-E]

I do have a question. If let’s say magically, tomorrow, we had a transition to 50 percent BEV, 50 percent ICE, how much impact would that have to the output of greenhouse gases?

 

[DevSecOps]

I do have a question. If let’s say magically, tomorrow, we had a transition to 50 percent BEV, 50 percent ICE, how much impact would that have to the output of greenhouse gases?

That's such a loaded question and since I love stirring the pot around here, let me jump on this one! The problem is that 80-90% of members here believe heavily that EVs substantially reduce overall greenhouse gases, which also fall in line with political beliefs. Those people would say it would make a huge impact ... and it might in the long run. I'm not an expert and I'm open to that idea.

There are contradictory studies which say that the greenhouse gases would remain unchanged. If these studies are true then are people being misled? Are the baseline calculations for EV emissions vs ICE really just using a 40kW battery (where in reality we have 2x, 3x and 4x that), as just one example? The issue is that, some people would say those studies are anti this, that, and the other, and discredited as conservative propaganda. They might actually be factual and true.

Personally, I don't believe scientists much anymore. They are continually wrong and motivated by political bias. Everything is skewed to reflect whatever their agenda is. Soooo I think that in the end we'll just have to see. I'm not sold on it either way.

Just for clarity, I've owned 3 EVs, I have a, very expensive, hobby dabbling in solar systems and I moderate a forum for an electrical company. I'm not anti-anything EV or Solar and I think it's amazing that I can generate power form the sun which makes my cars go vroom. I'm just a critical thinker and don't believe much from either side on many of these issues. I personally don't think I'm reducing emissions, but if I am, that's a bonus. I also really like eating farting cows and driving on cement (3rd largest emitter of CO2) roads which EVs deteriorate faster due to weight.

Edit: Removed subjects that require deeper conversation. Also removed language directed at the forum and some that might be considered inflammatory.

 

[MW1515]

That's such a loaded question and since I love stirring the pot around here, let me jump on this one! The problem is that 80-90% of members here believe heavily that EVs substantially reduce overall greenhouse gases, which also fall in line with political beliefs. Those people would say it would make a huge impact ... and it might in the long run. I'm not an expert and I'm open to that idea.

Unfortunately, anything contradicting their belief would be met with cancellation and attacks. There are contradictory studies which say that the greenhouse gases would remain unchanged. If these studies are true then are people being misled? Are the baseline calculations for EV emissions vs ICE really just using a 40kW battery (where in reality we have 2x, 3x and 4x that), as just one example? The issue is that, especially on this forum, those studies are immediately called anti this, that, and the other, and discredited as conservative propaganda. They might actually be factual and true.

Personally, I don't believe scientists much anymore. They are continually wrong and motivated by political bias. Everything is skewed to reflect whatever their agenda is. A good example of that - they are now saying that the ozone is healing itself. But greenhouse emissions haven't actually gone down, they've gone up... Soooo I think that in the end we'll just have to see. I'm not sold on it either way.

Just for clarity, I've owned 3 EVs, I have a, very expensive, hobby dabbling in solar systems and I moderate a forum for an electrical company. I'm not anti-anything EV or Solar and I think it's amazing that I can generate power form the sun which makes my cars go vroom. I'm just a critical thinker and don't believe much from either side on many of these issues. I personally don't think I'm reducing emissions, but if I am, that's a bonus. I also really like eating farting cows and driving on cement (3rd largest emitter of CO2) roads which EVs deteriorate faster due to weight.

Now queue all the comments about how it will change the planet forever and how I should be banished from earth for having an open mind.

The ozone layer is healing due to the relatively quick phasing out of CFCs and HCFCs and other ozone depleting substances that used to be widely used. The ozone can be healing while greenhouse gas emissions go up, that is not a contradiction. IMO the carbon emissions related to buying and using an EV (burning coal for part of the electricity and the additional resources that go into building a large battery pack) will get better over time as those industries change, but for now EVs still are already better from an environmental perspective due to EVs using energy about 3-5 times more efficiently than the average ICE vehicle. I haven't witnessed any attempts at silencing the WIDE variety of differing opinions on this forum as long as the rules are being followed, I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[RickMachE]

38 posts, 53 opinions. Gotta love it!

 

[luckie]

In reality, the ACTUAL solution was found a while ago- electric car with a backup generator. The Chevy Volt or BMW i8.

But we abandoned that solution due to no profit and low sales.

2023 Toyota Prius Prime = 3rd generation Chevy Volt

 

[mkhuffman]

I am in the long range camp.

My goal is to be able to drive to my destination and L2 charge there while I am sleeping. Even better, be able to drive there and back home without needing a single public charge. Public charging sucks and I don't see it getting any better.

For mass adoption, people like my wife need to be convinced. We have gone on a few trips that required public charging and it was not good. Broken chargers and slow chargers caused us much more pain than anything we would have experienced in a ICE vehicle. After the last fiasco she said she never wanted to take my car on a trip again.

If I had a 600 mile range vehicle, we could have avoided all the pain that came from public charging. I could drive to work 143 miles from my house, and home without the pain of public charging.

Range is the most important thing for mass adoption, IMO, and easier to achieve than finding the electrical generating capacity necessary to charge multiple cars at 350 kW simultaneously.

And don't forget about people who don't have charging at home. Apartment dwellers with no charging at their apartment may only need to visit a DCFC once a month of they have a 600 mile range car. The less they have to seek out a public charger, the better it is for all BEV owners.

 

[mkhuffman]

That's such a loaded question and since I love stirring the pot around here, let me jump on this one! The problem is that 80-90% of members here believe heavily that EVs substantially reduce overall greenhouse gases, which also fall in line with political beliefs. Those people would say it would make a huge impact ... and it might in the long run. I'm not an expert and I'm open to that idea.

Unfortunately, anything contradicting their belief would be met with cancellation and attacks. There are contradictory studies which say that the greenhouse gases would remain unchanged. If these studies are true then are people being misled? Are the baseline calculations for EV emissions vs ICE really just using a 40kW battery (where in reality we have 2x, 3x and 4x that), as just one example? The issue is that, especially on this forum, those studies are immediately called anti this, that, and the other, and discredited as conservative propaganda. They might actually be factual and true.

Personally, I don't believe scientists much anymore. They are continually wrong and motivated by political bias. Everything is skewed to reflect whatever their agenda is. A good example of that - they are now saying that the ozone is healing itself. But greenhouse emissions haven't actually gone down, they've gone up... Soooo I think that in the end we'll just have to see. I'm not sold on it either way.

Just for clarity, I've owned 3 EVs, I have a, very expensive, hobby dabbling in solar systems and I moderate a forum for an electrical company. I'm not anti-anything EV or Solar and I think it's amazing that I can generate power form the sun which makes my cars go vroom. I'm just a critical thinker and don't believe much from either side on many of these issues. I personally don't think I'm reducing emissions, but if I am, that's a bonus. I also really like eating farting cows and driving on cement (3rd largest emitter of CO2) roads which EVs deteriorate faster due to weight.

Now queue all the comments about how it will change the planet forever and how I should be banished from earth for having an open mind.

I hope those on this forum who agree with you are closer to 50% instead of 10-20%. But put me in the 10-20%.

 

[luckie]

Personally, I don't believe scientists much anymore. They are continually wrong and motivated by political bias. Everything is skewed to reflect whatever their agenda is.

Gotta say don't think it includes *actual* scientists, just "influencers", wannabe celebrities, politicians, and I do know of some media sources that make up silly tales about stuff, even EVs.

 

[RickMachE]

On road trips, I don't stop for the bathroom. I just don't need it.

 

[Mach1E]

2023 Toyota Prius Prime = 3rd generation Chevy Volt

Is it?

I figured it was just a PHEV.

The biggest difference with the Volt is the gas generator never drove the wheels.

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