Tesla suppresses thousands of driving range complaints

[ARK]

So you think no one else does this. Ford actually did this for a while as well. They removed all range adjustments to make their vehicles, and I quote "more like Tesla".

Ford was responding to some pretty sustained criticism from people about ‘why doesn’t my range show the promised amount’, but it is clear any automaker is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t in showing EPA range versus an intelligent estimate of range.

Still, Tesla goes much further, they intentionally, though legally, cook the books when it comes to EPA ratings in a way other carmakers do not.

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[thekat03]

Honestly not surprised by this, but is definitely a dick move. Frankly this shows how disrespectful Tesla is to their own customers and their attitude in general. Tesla very much has a history of misleading information. They need to start being honest, although we know it won't happen since it will hurt their bottom line.

At the end of the day, I still think the manufactures have a duty to educate customers on EVs and what to expect. There is a big learning curve with them and someone needs to actually educate customers correctly.

Absolutely. I understand wanting to cancel service appointments if they're only to check under performing range compared to the GoM, but ideally, that should be a phone discussion explaining why there's nothing wrong with the car, and how to better plan based on the car's shown data. But poor communication isn't just a problem with Tesla. It's also Toyota, and Ford (though their presence in forums still is surprising to me, and awesome), and probably most if not all the car companies. A big part of good customer service is listening to the customer and making sure they know they have been heard. Ideally, it would be good if they can fix whatever the customer's concern is, and sometimes the fix is education. That will save a lot of repeat calls a d frustration on everyone's part.

 

[DevSecOps]

Still, Tesla goes much further, they intentionally, though legally, cook the books when it comes to EPA ratings in a way other carmakers do not.

I agree that range numbers for them are off. I have been very critical of EPA range numbers for years now. Range is only needed when you travel with an EV. No one needs range when you are in town. Therefore EPA range should be based 100% on freeway speeds in my honest opinion. Instead we are using the old way of EPA calculations which was used to estimate cost of fuel. But since it boosts EV numbers and the government has an agenda to push more EV sales, we won't likely see any change to make these numbers more honest. EPA numbers should also show temperature curves.

No EV manufacturer wants to admit the dirty truth about range. It's a hot button issue that they would rather avoid talking about, or being honest about.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

So you think no one else does this. Ford actually did this for a while as well. They removed all range adjustments to make their vehicles, and I quote "more like Tesla".

There is an important distinction to be made. Tesla’s 5-cycle EPA estimates have all been bullshit since the beginning, independent testing has long confirmed this. Ford’s EPA estimates, and almost every other maker’s EPA numbers have been conservative based on the same independent testing. So, Tesla started off with a “big lie” and just ran with it while silencing internal/external dissent.

 

[DevSecOps]

There is an important distinction to be made. Tesla’s 5-cycle EPA estimates have all been bullshit since the beginning, independent testing has long confirmed this. Ford’s EPA estimates, and almost every other maker’s EPA numbers have been conservative based on the same independent testing. So, Tesla started off with a “big lie” and just ran with it while silencing internal/external dissent.

A lie is a lie in my books. Doesn't matter which lie is bigger they are equally wrong. I'm not defending Tesla at all, but I don't distinguish between size of lies. I've never seen anything close to 260 mi freeway range in my GTPE, therefore Ford lied, just like they all do.

 

[dmastro]

Ha I find it ironic that this is posted and heartily endorsed given that the frequenters of this forum consistently shout down complaints about range.

 

[superdave80]

Ummmm… it sounds like what Tesla did wrong was overestimate its driving range. Ford and other manufacturers have done that, too.

The article states the opposite:
" Recurrent tested other automakers’ in-dash range meters – including the Ford Mustang Mach-E, the Chevrolet Bolt and the Hyundai Kona – and found them to be more accurate. "

 

[superdave80]

but it's funny these comments seem to forget the hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on this forum about range numbers. It's not just Tesla.

Most of those posts are from people driving 85 MPH or in 20 deg weather. Tesla vehicles are failing to live up to their range estimates even in nominal driving conditions/speeds.

 

[Blue highway]

A lie is a lie in my books. Doesn't matter which lie is bigger they are equally wrong. I'm not defending Tesla at all, but I don't distinguish between size of lies. I've never seen anything close to 260 mi freeway range in my GTPE, therefore Ford lied, just like they all do.

Neither the EPA, nor Ford, nor Tesla promises the EPA range at highway speed. it is for the EPA drive cycle.

Ford, Kia, Mercedes... etc. all ~achieve the claimed range at those conditions.... Tesla does not.

The GOM in Kia, Ford, Mercedes etc. are "close". Tesla is not.

There is a difference here.

 

[DevSecOps]

Most of those posts are from people driving 85 MPH or in 20 deg weather. Tesla vehicles are failing to live up to their range estimates even in nominal driving conditions/speeds.

And? You realize that there's places where 85 is the speed limit. I'll say this for the hundredth time, range in an EV is only used for traveling. We travel on freeways. It's also illegal to go under the speed limit. EPA numbers for EVs should be based on freeway speeds and there should be temperature curves. I don't see why people take issue with honesty and clarity.

 

[DevSecOps]

Neither the EPA, nor Ford, nor Tesla promises the EPA range at highway speed. it is for the EPA drive cycle.

Ford, Kia, Mercedes... etc. all ~achieve the claimed range at those conditions.... Tesla does not.

The GOM in Kia, Ford, Mercedes etc. are "close". Tesla is not.

There is a difference here.

So, everyone provides a useless number, got it. Big difference.

And no, not all MachE's have accurate range. As I said, a number of us have full EPA range numbers and it's complete BS.

 

[dtbaker61]

...

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that manufacturers have a responsibility to educate their consumers to the realities of the technology, and consumers need to do their freaking homework and research before making such a monumental investment in an electric vehicle!

Shoppers should be educated to simply look at the actual available kWhr of Battery. Knowing that mfg pad both ends a little, I'd suggest 90% of stated battery capacity is probably what is actually available.

There will be a (small) difference between makes and models from weight and aerodynamics, but I'd bet that those differences will account for less than 5% of any difference in actual range under real conditions.

As far as 'maximum' range per charge.... we all know that is not a good thing to count on when planning a long trip, especially in hilly terrain, or if temps are below 50F. The formula for reducing range anxiety is:

range between charges on a roadtrip, charged to 100%
= usable battery capacity x .8 x (2.2 miles winter or 2.7 summer)

example for SR = 68 x .8 x 2.2 = 120 miles winter , 147 mile summer for no anxiety

 

[Blue highway]

So, everyone provides a useless number, got it. Big difference.

And no, not all MachE's have accurate range. As I said, a number of us have full EPA range numbers and it's complete BS.

I see a difference between 5% and 35% variance.

not everyone has useless numbers...

 

[dtbaker61]

Neither the EPA, nor Ford, nor Tesla promises the EPA range at highway speed. it is for the EPA drive cycle.

Ford, Kia, Mercedes... etc. all ~achieve the claimed range at those conditions.... Tesla does not.

The GOM in Kia, Ford, Mercedes etc. are "close". Tesla is not.

There is a difference here.

who cares what the GOM shows?
and why?

I would much rather change it to display actual kWhr remaining.... like a gas gauge in ICE showing gallons

 

[superdave80]

And? You realize that there's places where 85 is the speed limit.

And in those places you will get less range than areas that have 65-70 MPH speed limits. If you want to have EPA ratings for 85MPH driving, go complain to the EPA.

I'll say this for the hundredth time, range in an EV is only used for traveling.

Yes... yes it is. Why are you saying this for the hundredth time? And to whom?

It's also illegal to go under the speed limit.

You are free to go under the speed limit as long as you aren't impeding the flow of traffic (although the exact law will probably vary from state to state).

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