Level 2 chargers at grocery stores seem pointless

[machme]

I keep seeing new ev chargers at grocery stores, and all are level 2 chargers. Some are free for 2 or 3 hours max. But who shops that long? And that's really not adding much range. I know level 3 (dcfc) chargers cost a lot more. The level 2 chargers are rarely being used. How about movie theaters and golf courses. That would be somewhat useful for level 2 chargers.

I think the L2 chargers are useful but could be charging at higher rates with minimal more costs. What I have experienced is 6 or 7KW rates max. A slight improvement to 9.6KW or 11.5KW would be my preference.

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[RickMachE]

Our downtown parking structures had free charging with paid parking in the past. Now it's paid charging with paid parking.

The university had some chargers, they were free and you could access them when the lots they were in were off hours (each has a schedule). Now, they are adding more chargers, and requiring you to "join" a group in ChargePoint to be able to use them. They are now free while you charge, but after 30 minutes of idle you are charged $3 per hour.

 

[kltye]

The average driver needs to be plugged into a fast level 2 charger 1-2 hours a day, so this could help supplement their charging needs if they can't charge at night. In my mind though, charging where you park at night is the only real solution. A single 200A service with some control for load balancing can keep 15 EVs charged at nighttime rates *.

* Assumed 14,000 miles a year, 3 Mi/kWh, 8 hours of off-peak charging, maxing out 160A available from the service, 85% charging efficiency, and a 75% usage factor.

Fast L2 in public areas and load managed 240v charging at night for parking garages is my charging panacea for apartment/condo-dwellers. I would even say a standard 60 amp service (48A usable) would suffice for up to 10 cars overnight with load balancing, since not all 10 vehicles would pull in all at once at 0% SoC.

 

[thekat03]

There are grants to help towns fund public chargers. Topsham, Maine, installed a pair of level 2 chargers at their local library using such grants, and have set pricing to be a little over cost of electricity (enough over to help cover cost of maintenance, I think). My hope is more towns can do this, to offer a bit of extra flexibility for people who have limited access to charging at home, or are venturing into more rural areas.

 

[buzznwood]

I think the L2 chargers are useful but could be charging at higher rates with minimal more costs. What I have experienced is 6 or 7KW rates max. A slight improvement to 9.6KW or 11.5KW would be my preference.

Agree there is a lot of 3 phase power available at commercial sites, unfortunately neither ccs.1 or ncas support it seeing as everyone wants to changed plugs over here it will turn into a wasted opportunity to not have ditched both and moved over to using ccs.2 that does support 3-phase AC charging.

Probably be far easier to roll out a lot of 3-phase AC 22kw destination chargers and have them doted around the place so they would be able to cater to a lot of the local traffic requiring less DC chargers as those would mainly only be needed for those road tripping.

 

[mkhuffman]

Any business installing a charger needs to have signage defining usage. A smart business will limit the usage to shoppers, but restricting usage to buyers would be a mistake.

Theft is a strong word and inappropriate without signage.

If the grocery store, which shares a parking lot with 5 other stores, has chargers in front of them, is shopping at the drugstore next to it ok? What if I don't buy anything?

Public chargers need to have limits and Ideally tie the charger to shoppers with an app designed to identify customers and weed out deadbeats. If a grocery store can give me gas rewards, they can give me charging rewards too.

If a business wants to offer free charging for people who are not their customers, they can build them in public places instead the parking lot in front of their store. It is obvious and clear why they are there, and the business is paying for the electricity. So I think it is theft unless you are using the business that is paying for the electricity.

The abuse of free chargers is out of control. I cannot wait until all of them have either huge idle fees, or charge per kWh. But the idle fees won't eliminate the freeloaders. It will just encourage them to move their cars when they are done.

 

[RickMachE]

If a business wants to offer free charging for people who are not their customers, they can build them in public places instead the parking lot in front of their store. It is obvious and clear why they are there, and the business is paying for the electricity. So I think it is theft unless you are using the business that is paying for the electricity.

The abuse of free chargers is out of control. I cannot wait until all of them have either huge idle fees, or charge per kWh. But the idle fees won't eliminate the freeloaders. It will just encourage them to move their cars when they are done.

I suspect that if public chargers get under control, and business chargers get under control, there would be something else that would get your goat...

 

[mkhuffman]

I suspect that if public chargers get under control, and business chargers get under control, there would be something else that would get your goat...

100%.

But right now, the problems caused by free charging are at the top of my first world problem list.

BTW, your idea of charging credits is a good one.

 

[Glen Boise]

Living with only L1 would be a real burden for me. $3k is a lot, but if you plan to be at your house for many years it is probably worth it.

Situations are different. I invested $1,300 for my wiring and $440 for my L2 EVSE for my home. I consider it a home improvement increasing the home's value for most future buyers. Most of whom, we hope, will be BEV drivers.

 

[Glen Boise]

We already worked out decades ago how to create street parking turnover by pay parking meters (formerly coin operated, now mostly electronic). Not that hard imho to add a Level 2 service layer to these systems. The payment mechanisms and the enforcement mechanisms are already there, built and understood... so this would be is a modification and not an entirely new use concept. Back to my 1910-era "public horse water trough" concept several posts ago here...

Europeans are all ready offering on-street L2 charging. You bring your own charging cord. Sometimes the chargers are built into street lamps.

 

[mkhuffman]

Situations are different. I invested $1,300 for my wiring and $440 for my L2 EVSE for my home. I consider it a home improvement increasing the home's value for most future buyers. Most of whom, we hope, will be BEV drivers.

I ran the wire myself and installed the EVSE myself. It cost around $700, including the EVSE, the 14-50 outlet and subpanel that is wired directly to the EVSE.

I plan to replace the wire to upgrade the circuit to 100 Amps so I can install a 80 Amp EVSE in the future. The MME only does 48 Amps max, so it won't help me initially. But batteries will be growing and I plan the get the biggest battery available in my next BEV. Range is the most important feature in a BEV.

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