On the Fence after watching Mach E's thermal system nightmare

[Mach-Lee]

Take out your frunk liner and let us know... I don't think the thermal management system is different between the two batteries. Some say it's not as bad as it was back then, but I don't think it's much different than the video on the 2023s regardless of the pack. But I've never taken apart a 2023, so I really don't know.

Piping is redesigned on the LFP pack, and it has a completely different (smaller) HVBJB than the NCM packs.

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[stealthytolkien]

Thank you all for you feedback. I still love the Mach-E and I've always been a Ford guy. Not a Elon fan and read a lot of negatives about Tesla build quality, cameras, comfort etc.

I wouldn’t be too quick to jump to this conclusion. I also wouldn’t base my car buying decision based on a poser CEO.

Tesla is an incredible (first) EV. It’s just easy to own. Easy to service. Easy to road trip with. Their MMI is fantastic. Charging network is almost flawless. No major thermal issues. It’s got a heat pump so it fares better in harsh winters. And the build quality has come a long way since 2017-2018 days. MME will be a dead investment the day you buy it. Tesla (newer ones) will hold value somewhat better given the demand. However there are a couple of basic security features that Tesla lacks. Rear cross traffic alert is one. Blind sport monitoring is another. The vision system is not great but not the worst.

Tesla Range should be taken with a grain of salt. A 330 mile car in summers will go about 260 miles and in winters it will be about 200. MachE isn’t any better except that it advertises the range far more conservatively.

Non Tesla network is still below average and cannot be relied upon for critical road trips, so is it better to have slightly less range but far superior charging network or have a little more range but far inferior charging network?

Decision is solely yours. If I could go back in time knowing what I know today, I am not so sure if I would have bought a Ford EV. I have the top shelf one and our entire household loves it. Don’t get me wrong. All I’m saying is that I’d have saved $10k and gotten a Y if I could do this all over again.

 

[Scarpia]

I don't see much discussion here about privacy issues, but they are very important to me. Ford gives you the ability to turn off a lot of connected services if you want to, although you do lose some functionality. My understanding is that you don't have as much choice with Tesla.

 

[LincolnLuvr]

Are there any advantages in waiting for a 2024 model? No tax credit on the '24s. Will '23s also be able to charge at the Supercharger network in 2024?

 

[DevSecOps]

Tesla Range should be taken with a grain of salt. A 330 mile car in summers will go about 260 miles and in winters it will be about 200

I know it's common for people to harp on Tesla range, and I too thought that it would be bad, but it's really not that far off.

I just did 190 miles in a M3P starting at 100% SOC with external temps in the 30s. I got home with 20% SOC remaining. The EPA range on the M3P is 315. That's about 75% of the EPA rating in the winter.

The MachE GTPE in the winter would give me about 180 with the EPA at 260 which is 70% of the stated range.

So, in my real world testing the GTPE is actually worse than a M3P on the EPA figures at highway speeds of 75-80mph in the cold. It should be noted that other MachE trims appear to fare better than the GTPE in EPA range.

 

[mattyhillnepp]

I purchased a month ago today, no regrets.
I went to a dealer ev event not even thinking I would like the ford, just wanted to compare with some other vehicles.

I had just been on a work trip and was in a 2023 model 3 and model y for some long Ubers and I wasn’t impressed. Definitely not good enough to get me to want to spend with Elon.

The Mach e will have access to the Tesla charging network at some point next year, so when that happens I can utilize that for charging on road trips. Wanting access to the Tesla network but not wanting a Tesla was a real big sticking point for me not getting a BEV. I had 2 different PHEVs before. Prius prime top trim, looked at a model X when I got that car and it didn’t seem nice enough for the cost, and a wrangler 4XE Sahara a few year later, again looked at the model X and also the model Y and they just didn’t seem nice enough to warrant the price. Traded wrangler for the Mach e.

The fit and finish are great. I got a premium awd extended range battery. Everything seems super solid.
I live in Iowa, where it is already cold, no complaints.

If you’re concerned about resale just lease it, otherwise just enjoy the car. It isn’t an investment, it’s a depreciating asset.

I have a garage that I can charge in, so keeping it at 80% other than for long trips isn’t a big deal, I work from home so I don’t do a ton of driving every single day mileage wise. I do sit in the Starbucks drive thru a lot longer than what I would like to admit. I got the extended range battery for road trips and because I know winter impacts efficiency.

 

[ArthurDOB]

Why buy the extended range NCM battery for $7,000 more? It has a 310 mile range, but you're only supposed to charge it 90% unless going on a trip. You can safely charge the 250 mile LFP battery to 100%. So on a daily basis, you're only getting 30-35 miles more of range for all that money.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...ingEnabled=False&userMarket=USA&buildtype=web

The exact reason I got the standard range model.

 

[BigMach-E]

Hmm, I still love my MME, but buying one isn’t a prudent financial decision.

 

[thekat03]

Hmm, I still love my MME, but buying one isn’t a prudent financial decision.

With how much I drive, leasing isn't, either. But yes, for those who can fit within the mileage of a lease, that's probably the better way to go, financially and tech-wise.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

MME will be a dead investment the day you buy it.

Automobiles are not investments. Drives me nuts when people talk about them as a financial vehicle ?

They are tools and depreciable assets that provide a quality of life and a standard of living. Would you clear out your retirement and go purchase a bunch of cars for your financial future? God, I hope not.

Unless you can afford to buy million dollars collectibles like Leno, you will rarely ever make money on a car. To do so you needs to not only make back the money you bought it for but any other expenses associated with it.

OP, please don't make a car purchase based on resale value. Base it on what will serve your daily needs without driving you crazy (pun intended).

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Hmm, I still love my MME, but buying one isn’t a prudent financial decision.

Buying a car these days never is. I did not buy my MME to save or make money. I bought it because I needed a vehicle with more cargo space and access than my tiny Acura sedan. I didn't want another gas powered car and, at the time, the MME had more pluses (that mattered to me) than the Model Y.

If the MME had not been built, I would be driving a Model Y right now. I ride in my coworker's MYP all the time. It's okay and I'm sure if it were mine, I'd be okay with it. But as it happens, I drive an MME and still love it a year and a half and 24,000 miles later.

The week I drove ICEVs while it was having the HVBJB replaced was not enjoyable. Got serious BEV withdrawal. Confirmed there is nothing I miss about ICEVs. With in mind, I'd take a Tesla over ANY gasoline powered car. But hey that's just me.

 

[RickMachE]

Are there any advantages in waiting for a 2024 model? No tax credit on the '24s. Will '23s also be able to charge at the Supercharger network in 2024?

All Mach-Es will have access to 15,000 Tesla SuperChargers, with an adapter, in Spring 2024.

Yes, preliminary messaging from Ford seems to indicate no tax credit in 2024. However, the rule has not been finalized yet.

 

[VaporTrails]

The point about the thermal system is written from the point of view of a manufacturing efficiency engineer. Literally his job to identify possible sources of savings to achieve efficient production. His reaction was overly dramatic to give some character to their channel. (I enjoyed it…). Also note that he praised the efficiency of the window regulator assembly. The thermal system does the job. It is a lot different from an ICE car that seeks to get the thermal to 190 degrees ASAP and sustain that temp. When I pull my GTPE into the garage, the garage does not get noticeably hotter. I had an ICE Mustang GT. When I pulled that into the garage, the V8 would be giving off heat for hours.

 

[RickMachE]

The point about the thermal system is written from the point of view of a manufacturing efficiency engineer. Literally his job to identify possible sources of savings to achieve efficient production. His reaction was overly dramatic to give some character to their channel. (I enjoyed it…). Also note that he praised the efficiency of the window regulator assembly. The thermal system does the job. It is a lot different from an ICE car that seeks to get the thermal to 190 degrees ASAP and sustain that temp. When I pull my GTPE into the garage, the garage does not get noticeably hotter. I had an ICE Mustang GT. When I pulled that into the garage, the V8 would be giving off heat for hours.

I often chuckle at the takes people have after watching videos, because they seem to miss that the creator has a purpose and an agenda, and always adds drama and often exaggerates to make a point and get opens and clicks. Clickbait anyone?

Very good point about the point of view he brings. Consumers by and large don't evaluate window regulator efficiency when evaluating cars, nor do they care.

By eliminating components, Ford saves money and lowers weight. Cost savings usually increase profit and don't lower price to consumers, and weight changes often result in negligible fuel savings, so you're not going to see consumers flocking to newer model years unless they buy into clickbait headlines like "2024 Lightning with heat pump expected to get much better range"...

 

[Mirak]

To the OP: I’m not saying engineering as it pertains to long term reliability is irrelevant, but there’s no indication the Mach has any worse reliability than a Tesla.

You should decide based on a balancing of on cost, which one is more fun / appealing, and which one best fits your use case.

The Tesla MY has several significant advantages, BUT you have to be prepared to accept some trade offs. Namely, it is incredibly bleh on the exterior, cheap-feeling materials and minimalist interior, smaller almost toy-like steering wheel, more road noise, and standard autopilot is by some accounts not as good as BlueCruise (even the free “hands-on” version).

Pros are significantly faster charging and higher efficiency (its lighter weight and egg-shape design allow comparable range on a smaller battery), Tesla software (unless you like Apple CarPlay / Android Auto), access to Suoercharger network (maybe won’t matter much in future), softer suspension, and currently the price.

For people who road trip frequently, I’d first recommend an ICE and, if they insist on an EV, a Tesla.

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