Brake / Rotors factory warranty

[mikenindorf]

my 21 ex awd has a braking grinding sound, only when nearing stop- under 1 mph, just before coming to a full stop. is this covered under the TSB?
Right rear. rotor has ridges.
26k miles

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[azerik]

my 21 ex awd has a braking grinding sound, only when nearing stop- under 1 mph, just before coming to a full stop. is this covered under the TSB?
Right rear. rotor has ridges.
26k miles

Should be, hit up your service dept

 

[MellowJohnny]

Seems odd to need brakes with so little kms.

OP is in New York City...

He's still driving kilometres, they just register as "miles" ;-)

 

[evfinder]

If an EV is needing new brake pads at such low milage something is very wrong. My first Prius went over 107,000 miles in 7 years on the original brake pads. My Prius Plug-in when 36,000 miles in 10 years on the original pads. In both cases there was still plenty of brake pad left when I moved on to my next vehicle. I drive in LA so probably not as bad as New York but still there is a lot of stop and go driving. Either the blended braking on the Mach-e is mostly using friction brakes of the OPs car has an issue. I would suggest talking with the EV team as the need for new brakes does not seem right.

 

[bshaw]

I don't know then. As I mentioned before, I'm a grandma and I drive like a grandma. I never brake hard and I only drove 9700 miles in two years.

Shops like to do brake jobs.

I once had a repair guy tell me that wiper blades only last for 18-months. I just nodded like "Ok, buddy".

If an EV is needing new brake pads at such low milage something is very wrong. My first Prius went over 107,000 miles in 7 years on the original brake pads. My Prius Plug-in when 36,000 miles in 10 years on the original pads. In both cases there was still plenty of brake pad left when I moved on to my next vehicle. I drive in LA so probably not as bad as New York but still there is a lot of stop and go driving. Either the blended braking on the Mach-e is mostly using friction brakes of the OPs car has an issue. I would suggest talking with the EV team as the need for new brakes does not seem right.

You forgot the 3rd possible explanation. The dealer wanted to do an extra brake job and misrepresented the current state of the pads and rotors. I find this to be the most likely explanation.

In situations like this, it's really best to have some photos to post for anyone else to be helpful to the OP.

 

[fritzmt]

Any recommendations on national chains to do brake repairs on the MME? I ask because I “feel compelled” to use Ford service department because it’s an EV made by them…and I worry about special care requirements for service. I don’t suffer from this delusion with any other car I’ve ever owned, though, so it’s likely all in my head. As such, I’m asking the smart minds in here if others have thoughts?

 

[Zach@granger]

I'm at the dealer, 16k miles on my 2021, they say rear pad and rotor need to be replaced but it's not covered under 3Y/36K factory warranty. I do have the extended warranty so it's covered under that with $100 deductible.

I asked why it's not under the original factory they said brakes were only covered for 12k miles there, showed me the system is spitting out the part number not covered.

I can't find details of the factory warranty anywhere, any help?

---edit/update---

• they clarified that the pads are what are worn out, 1.5mm (i didn't not verify myself). and it was only the rear
• i'm at 16k miles, when i google brake pad replacement google says 10-20k mile. i'm in nyc area heavy braking is the norm (non stop people cutting in front of me, i tell my wife i can get a free car from other drivers' insurance companies any day i so choose)
• i asked whether there is any issue with the rotor they said no, but "for warranty requirements" the practice is to always replace both the pad and the rotor at the same time
• service advisor originally said $100 deductible on my warranty but the part number was 2200, that looks like the pad which i later told him should be under covered under maintenance. he said what's the difference the rotor will still create a deductible, i said rotor should be under factory or extended warranty. he didn't confirm before i left
• i do not use 1 pedal

The first 12 months and 12,000 miles is the "adjustment period" under most factory warranty. That means you can get things like an alignment, brake pad replacement, wiper blades replaced, panel alignment, etc. fixed if required. A lot of these fixes are if something didn't come installed quite right from the factory.

Once that 12/12,000 is up those items are no longer covered. and it is important to note, if you cut your wiper blades with a windshield scraper that isn't covered (something not in Ford's control). But if the car is pulling to the left or right, etc. that is covered.

 

[RickMachE]

Any recommendations on national chains to do brake repairs on the MME? I ask because I “feel compelled” to use Ford service department because it’s an EV made by them…and I worry about special care requirements for service. I don’t suffer from this delusion with any other car I’ve ever owned, though, so it’s likely all in my head. As such, I’m asking the smart minds in here if others have thoughts?

I'd stay away from any chains. The Mach-E has EV-specific features, and requires usage of Ford's system to properly do the brakes. I wouldn't let a place like Midas touch my EVs.

 

[bbulkow]

Let me repeat: 1-pedal doesn't change when regen is active, and when the physical brakes are used.

If you use 1-pedal and don't hit the brake pedal, you can still be using the brakes.

Physical brakes are not controlled by whether you use the brake pedal. Physical brakes are used when you are requesting more braking power than regen can provide.

Regen capabilities even depend on SOC: I don't know about this car, with its deep reserves, but I have a personal electric vehicle (EUC) and it *only* has regen, and it's typical to not charge to 100% because at 100% indicated you're really at 97% and if you start out at the top of a hill, you can charge to true 100% using regen, then lose brakes because there's no battery left to charge.

If you enable the realtime "power gauge" feature, you'll see when the physical brakes are used. It is completely possible to hit the real brakes by lifting the accelerator in 1pd. I generally find when coming down from higher speeds (70mph++) I have to be gentle in lifting the accelerator to avoid using the physical brakes. I also find that if I'm below about 20 mph, I can stab the actual brake pedal pretty danged hard and still be in regen. It's about the amount of power you're requesting.

Regarding the "we have to replace the rotors" thing, shops say that these days. It wasn't true decades ago. The pads are designed to be replaceable maintenance part, the rotors are not. It's a common shop tactic to up a bill to replace the rotors when it is not necessary, they just show you rotors with rust on it and some grooves, and admittedly it's a judgement call how much grooves about when to replace. This is why you're seeing the split between maint and warrantee. If they're doing it under warrantee (rotors under the extended), might as well let them. The practice of rotors with pads always is so prevalent you might have trouble finding a shop that will just do the pads.

An analogy from ICE times is whether you have to replace the oil filter every time you replace the oil. No, you follow the schedule.

If it's your own dime, they will probably push back less.

 

[bshaw]

If you use 1-pedal and don't hit the brake pedal, you can still be using the brakes.

This seems completely counter to how I would expect the car to operate. With the exception of cruise control needing to slow down quickly because a car is in front of you, I don't see why they would design it where brakes are applied automatically? I always try and stay in the 60% - 80% charge band, so SOC is not a factor.

For what other reason would the car apply the physical brakes? It just doesn't make sense at all to degrade the efficiency of the car like you're suggesting.

 

[bbulkow]

This seems completely counter to how I would expect the car to operate. With the exception of cruise control needing to slow down quickly because a car is in front of you, I don't see why they would design it where brakes are applied automatically? I always try and stay in the 60% - 80% charge band, so SOC is not a factor.

For what other reason would the car apply the physical brakes? It just doesn't make sense at all to degrade the efficiency of the car like you're suggesting.

The short answer is it's a safety issue, the long answer is simple engineering.

The regen system is built to handle so much load - it's the acceleration system, in reverse. We know when you hit the accelerator, it's not infinite. Depending on the number of motors you have, the power you have, the conversion electronics between the battery and the wheels, there's only so much braking that can be applied (just like only so much acceleration).

In the case of the braking system on a car, for safety, we want a system that will operate even at the more extreme limits, and have lots of brake power on tap - we want to be limited by the traction of the tires, not the capacity of the electronics. It turns out the regen system just isn't up for the task.

This is why you can think of the deceleration in kw, just like you think of acceleration in KW. This basically means that scrubbing off a modest amount of speed when you're going fast generates a TON of watts, more than the system can handle, and instead of just having the brake system go "meh, you're on your own my dude, outside design capacity, should have planned your braking in advance", right before you plough into the car in front of you, the designers fit physical brakes as well, which are designed to pull off more power faster.

Another way to intuitively think of it: Let's say your 60mph to 70mph acceleration time is 2 seconds. Probably, your regen system can do the same - and you'll stay within regen.

What if you need to scrub off 70 to 60 in 1 second? You'll need physical brakes, and the car (it's heavy!) Has plenty of traction on dry pavement to do that.

Physical brakes have their limits too, but modern caliper brakes are great, even for cars of this weight. We've got those nice brakes *and* the regen system.

Another intuitive way to think about it: if your car could burn rubber on all 4 wheels at 110mph, it has the capacity to accelerate past the limits of traction across the entire speed range, and physical brakes would not be necessary except as required by regulation. Once we get to that point (various technical improvements in motors and power switching electronics are likely required), perhaps the code will change, and cars can get a little simpler.

Let's talk about 1PD vs accell & brake. It's just a difference in control systems: lifting the accelerator directs the system to brake gently with 1PD off, and more with 1PD on. The different modes (whisper, normal, unbridled) seem to have slightly different curves. It's just a translation to how much braking to request; there's no reason to hardware that to the "break point" of when you're within the regen envelope. This is all "drive by wire"; gone are the days when there's a mechanical linkage to the throttle body, and a master piston to the manifold for the brake hydraulics.

Of course, the car's electronics will be designed to operate as efficiently as possible. Whenever you request braking, it'll use regen first, and physical brakes only when necessary - that is, possibly when you request it by lifting the accelerator quickly in 1PD at high speed.

Which is why most EVs have an instantaneous power meter, which shows when you're in regen (like coming down a hill), when you're applying power (you could be decelerating up a hill and still need to apply power), when you're applying the physical brakes. It's crazy to me that Ford doesn't enable the power meter by default. It takes an hour with FORSCAN once you have the OBD2 adapter, I can't imagine driving without it.

If you enable this feature, you'll see exactly this behavior. If you drive a Tesla, you'll see the same thing. There's a range where you're within regen, and further than that, the brakes are applied.

Yeah? This computes?

One of my other vehicles is an electric unicycle. For lighter weight and simplicity, it has no physical brake, only regen. However, it's a 2.2KW motor, and the whole system (human plus device) is 250lbs. This pretty much means you've got a lot of brake on tap, but it's also true that NHTSA specs for building vehicles require physical brakes, so this device should never be legal above 30mph.

As a final note, this probably means an AWD has better regen capabilities than an AWD, and thus might have higher *real world* efficiency, which might overcome the extra inefficiencies of having more motors. If I had thought of that, I might have talked myself into an AWD.

 

[flapjake314]

just as a final conclusion on the topic, dealer did the brake pads under my maintenance plan and the rotors under factory warranty (no deductible). it would have been covered under extended warranty as well but with the deductible. so all-in-all i paid nothing because i had the coverage plans.

i did asked again whether they could just machine it, rep said no against ford's warranty policy and that a few months ago ford actually forced the dealership to remove their lathe from the premise because they are never supposed to machine anything ever. -shrug- i was a bit shocked to hear that

 

[Motomax]

Let me repeat: 1-pedal doesn't change when regen is active, and when the physical brakes are used.

If you use 1-pedal and don't hit the brake pedal, you can still be using the brakes.

Physical brakes are not controlled by whether you use the brake pedal. Physical brakes are used when you are requesting more braking power than regen can provide.

Regen capabilities even depend on SOC: I don't know about this car, with its deep reserves, but I have a personal electric vehicle (EUC) and it *only* has regen, and it's typical to not charge to 100% because at 100% indicated you're really at 97% and if you start out at the top of a hill, you can charge to true 100% using regen, then lose brakes because there's no battery left to charge.

If you enable the realtime "power gauge" feature, you'll see when the physical brakes are used. It is completely possible to hit the real brakes by lifting the accelerator in 1pd. I generally find when coming down from higher speeds (70mph++) I have to be gentle in lifting the accelerator to avoid using the physical brakes. I also find that if I'm below about 20 mph, I can stab the actual brake pedal pretty danged hard and still be in regen. It's about the amount of power you're requesting.

Regarding the "we have to replace the rotors" thing, shops say that these days. It wasn't true decades ago. The pads are designed to be replaceable maintenance part, the rotors are not. It's a common shop tactic to up a bill to replace the rotors when it is not necessary, they just show you rotors with rust on it and some grooves, and admittedly it's a judgement call how much grooves about when to replace. This is why you're seeing the split between maint and warrantee. If they're doing it under warrantee (rotors under the extended), might as well let them. The practice of rotors with pads always is so prevalent you might have trouble finding a shop that will just do the pads.

An analogy from ICE times is whether you have to replace the oil filter every time you replace the oil. No, you follow the schedule.

If it's your own dime, they will probably push back less.

When I had chunks of brake pads stuck to my rotors I was able to know exactly when the brakes were applied. Cold battery and 1PD= brakes. Cruise control minor speed adjustments=brakes.

 

[SJP]

I touch my brake pedal about once per week. At that rate, the brakes are going to last longer than other parts on the car.

My 2021 Mach E is in the shop now. 17, 895 miles. 20 months old. Rear brakes are shot. Pads have been cutting grooves in the rotors. I drive mostly on the highway and use one pedal 1/2 the time. I'm told they aren't covered so I'm on the hook for the cost. This has to be a defect and not a wear and tear issue. I'm done with Ford. So many problems with this car that they can't fix. I guess you should never buy a first year of anything...Toyota here I come..

 

[bshaw]

My 2021 Mach E is in the shop now. 17, 895 miles. 20 months old. Rear brakes are shot. Pads have been cutting grooves in the rotors. I drive mostly on the highway and use one pedal 1/2 the time. I'm told they aren't covered so I'm on the hook for the cost. This has to be a defect and not a wear and tear issue. I'm done with Ford. So many problems with this car that they can't fix. I guess you should never buy a first year of anything...Toyota here I come..

It would be great if you could post a pic of your rear brakes and rotors that are shot after 18k miles.
It would help a lot of others understand what maintenance they have coming up at similar mileage.

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