12Volt Battery Specs?

[Zapata]

So what type of 12 Volt battery is the Mach e using? Is it a big Lead weight or is it Lithium. If it is lead, how much does it weigh? Looks like an easy area to shed some pounds.

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[DevSecOps]

So what type of 12 Volt battery is the Mach e using? Is it a big Lead weight or is it Lithium. If it is lead, how much does it weigh? Looks like an easy area to shed some pounds.

Here's a good video of it, you should be able to get all the info you're looking for from part #BHAGM-H3. Go to the 5 minute mark. Looks like lead to me.

Just a word of warning. On some newer cars you have to re-program the battery to the specific cell type. Switching from lead to lithium, for example, would require a recode. This is true with both VW and Audi, otherwise the battery will not charge correctly. I'm not sure if Ford's require that recode but I would want more information before replacing it with a different cell type.

 

[HuntingPudel]

So what type of 12 Volt battery is the Mach e using? Is it a big Lead weight or is it Lithium. If it is lead, how much does it weigh? Looks like an easy area to shed some pounds.

The Motorcraft BHAGM-H3 battery is an AGM battery utilizing lead plates sandwiched between absorbent glass material. See the specification chart at https://www.macheforum.com/site/attachments/motorcraft_battery_specification_chart-pdf.12361/

 

[Zapata]

Part Number	Cold Cranking AMPS (At 0° F	Reserve Capacity (Minutes)	Length	Width	Height	Approx. Weight (Wet)
BHAGM-H3	380	60	6.9 (175)	6.9 (175)	7.5 (190)	27 (12.1)

Seems to be 27lbs. A lithium battery replacement would be around 10 lbs. Definitely not the monsters we need to start ICE engines.

 

[dtbaker61]

So what type of 12 Volt battery is the Mach e using? Is it a big Lead weight or is it Lithium. If it is lead, how much does it weigh? Looks like an easy area to shed some pounds.

It is AGM, and it is 'little' compared to the usual ICE starter battery.

AGM rather than lithium for several reasons.... first is expense, but also easier to flag when it is time to charge since the discharge voltage curve is linear. Also, much more resistant to cold in that it can accept a charge when it is below freezing where Lithium cannot. It would require a whole environmentally controlled shell, heater, and expense of an internal BMS to manage the charging.

 

[DevSecOps]

It is AGM, and it is 'little' compared to the usual ICE starter battery.

AGM rather than lithium for several reasons.... first is expense, but also easier to flag when it is time to charge since the discharge voltage curve is linear. Also, much more resistant to cold in that it can accept a charge when it is below freezing where Lithium cannot. It would require a whole environmentally controlled shell, heater, and expense of an internal BMS to manage the charging.

I had no clue that Li wouldn't charge below freezing before you said this. Thanks for the education!

 

[dtbaker61]

I had no clue that Li wouldn't charge below freezing before you said this. Thanks for the education!

it is really bad for lithium cells to be charged when core is below freezing; you can however USE them.

The MME HV battery tray keeps itself above freezing.... expending some energy to self-heat. So you can charge it under any outside condition/temp. Although, you might want to have a 'drape' over the charge port if you are outside in freezing rain or snow.

 

[Zapata]

For me, it's just not enough weight reduction to consider a lithium alternative.

 

[SnBGC]

For me, it's just not enough weight reduction to consider a lithium alternative.

Agreed. Plus there is a sensor in the negative cable that appears to be quite important to the maintenance software for LVB health. So changing the LVB to another type might require a different sensor.

 

[dtbaker61]

Agreed. Plus there is a sensor in the negative cable that appears to be quite important to the maintenance software for LVB health. So changing the LVB to another type might require a different sensor.

there are *some* lithium batteries that are designed to be 'drop in replacements' and have their own internal BMS and heaters.... but, there would still be a problem with the MME sensing the 'right time' to charge the LVB because a lithium battery voltage would look ok right up until too late.

There are some good reasons the LVB is AGM, and not Lithium.

There are other options that were probably considered however..... one being no LVB at all, and just leaving the dc-dc converter 'always on'. This would work fine, but have a higher phantom load on the HV, and present a higher drain on the HV when parked.

 

[SnBGC]

there are *some* lithium batteries that are designed to be 'drop in replacements' and have their own internal BMS and heaters.... but, there would still be a problem with the MME sensing the 'right time' to charge the LVB because a lithium battery voltage would look ok right up until too late.

There are some good reasons the LVB is AGM, and not Lithium.

There are other options that were probably considered however..... one being no LVB at all, and just leaving the dc-dc converter 'always on'. This would work fine, but have a higher phantom load on the HV, and present a higher drain on the HV when parked.

Yeah. Hyundai tried that. Didn't work out too well for them. Very risky. I prefer a separate LVB. Easier to manage that part of the system IMO.

 

[macchiaz-o]

Yeah. Hyundai tried that. Didn't work out too well for them. Very risky. I prefer a separate LVB. Easier to manage that part of the system IMO.

Hyundai began partitioning off a small portion of the HV pack to use as the 12V battery on the Ioniq Hybrid in 2017...

I thought they continued to do this now, and expanded to all of their hybrids sold in North America. Did something bad happen as a result?

 

[SnBGC]

Hyundai began partitioning off a small portion of the HV pack to use as the 12V battery on the Ioniq Hybrid in 2017...

I thought they continued to do this now, and expanded to all of their hybrids sold in North America. Did something bad happen as a result?

Nothing bad that I know about. The system has been problematic and quite a few unhappy owners from what I hear. I suspect they will abandon that idea with their full ground up BEVs but I don't know for certain. ???

 

[macchiaz-o]

Nothing bad that I know about. The system has been problematic and quite a few unhappy owners from what I hear. I suspect they will abandon that idea with their full ground up BEVs but I don't know for certain. ???

As far as I know, Hyundai has always included a lead acid battery (e.g. AGM) with their plug-in vehicles. Only the HEVs are architected without the lead acid battery.

I could be wrong though. I stopped obsessing about Hyundai Ioniq and Kona after a more viable option presented itself in November 2019.

 

[SnBGC]

As far as I know, Hyundai has always included a lead acid battery (e.g. AGM) with their plug-in vehicles. Only the HEVs are architected without the lead acid battery.

I could be wrong though. I stopped obsessing about Hyundai Ioniq and Kona after a more viable option presented itself in November 2019.

Same. I looked at them briefly but decided other options were a better fit for me.

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