400vs800volt battery poll

[Dylancch]

Just curious what everyone thinks. In my opinion I think the charging on my car is lack luster and I feel if it was an 800v car and could charge in the 200kw plus I'd be much happier. And for the record in my rural settings there are no 200+kw chargers. There is 2 within a 1000km distance. And alot of 50kw ones probably 20. So wouldn't effect me that much. But I'd like to see this battery improve.t

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[timbop]

The future is likely 800v, but that has design and financial repercussions for both the cars and chargers. It also potentially leads to higher peak demand on utilities, although if the number of chargers has to double to meet demand it comes out even.

 

[Sam2084]

800V generally WONT increase charging speed. Charging speed is usually gated by the c-rate of an individual cell. Say you charge each cell at its max current possible. You can arrange the cells into an 800V pack, or arrange the same number of cells into 2 400V packs, the overall charge rate is the same. Where you will see an advantage is in a charger that is 800V compatible but can’t supply more than 300A. 800V system would be able to max out its charge rate, but a 400V system may not. This is a relatively rare situation.

 

[ARK]

800V generally WONT increase charging speed. Charging speed is usually gated by the c-rate of an individual cell. Say you charge each cell at its max current possible. You can arrange the cells into an 800V pack, or arrange the same number of cells into 2 400V packs, the overall charge rate is the same. Where you will see an advantage is in a charger that is 800V compatible but can’t supply more than 300A. 800V system would be able to max out its charge rate, but a 400V system may not. This is a relatively rare situation.

If splitting the pack is a shortcut to faster charging, couldn’t you then just go one step further and turn a 1600v pack into two 800v packs as a superior option to a single 800v pack or two 400v packs, or does this not work for some reason?

 

[silverelan]

800v system is the future but Ford has left a lot of room on the table with the 400v architecture when it comes to charging speed.

Audi, Tesla, Polestar, and VW all get their 400v packs to charge from 10% to 80% in a half-hour or less. Hopefully Ford is able to improve the MME packs OTA to match VW's charging time (~27 mins 10-80%).

 

[Sam2084]

If splitting the pack is a shortcut to faster charging, couldn’t you then just go one step further and turn a 1600v pack into two 800v packs as a superior option to a single 800v pack or two 400v packs, or does this not work for some reason?

I definitely didn’t say that splitting the pack increases charge rate. I said increasing system voltage doesn’t generally increase charge rate.

 

[chrisGT]

Just curious what everyone thinks. In my opinion I think the charging on my car is lack luster and I feel if it was an 800v car and could charge in the 200kw plus I'd be much happier. And for the record in my rural settings there are no 200+kw chargers. There is 2 within a 1000km distance. And alot of 50kw ones probably 20. So wouldn't effect me that much. But I'd like to see this battery improve.t

I used to own a 800v Taycan for a year and its DC charging speed was much much faster than the Mach-e.
The 270kw was just a max under perfect conditions, even 200kw is very optimistic but it easily stayed above 150kw for a lot of time. It would also stay up to 80kw all the way to 85% SoC when the battery was warm. The Taycan would typically take half the time my Mach-e needs under the same conditions (same charger, similar external temperature, etc).

 

[dtbaker61]

I am in favor of sticking with 400v for a while..... all the connectors, insulation, inverter, dc-dc, etc gets way more expensive once you are running over 600v.

I have virtually no need for faster charging as I charge 99% of the time at home overnight. I would hate to bump the cost of the vehicle up for a feature I really don't need.

 

[tuminatr]

I am in favor of sticking with 400v for a while..... all the connectors, insulation, inverter, dc-dc, etc gets way more expensive once you are running over 600v.

I have virtually no need for faster charging as I charge 99% of the time at home overnight. I would hate to bump the cost of the vehicle up for a feature I really don't need.

It depends, if you travel you want the fastest charging you can get. Also these 350kw chargers are available all over the USA.

Also considering many DC fast chargers charge you per minute it could be cheaper too.

I always think it's odd that the 50kw chargers in my area are so expensive. Usually $5 connect fee and .30 per minute, definitely not a good deal

 

[Whatstreet]

800V generally WONT increase charging speed. Charging speed is usually gated by the c-rate of an individual cell. Say you charge each cell at its max current possible. You can arrange the cells into an 800V pack, or arrange the same number of cells into 2 400V packs, the overall charge rate is the same. Where you will see an advantage is in a charger that is 800V compatible but can’t supply more than 300A. 800V system would be able to max out its charge rate, but a 400V system may not. This is a relatively rare situation.

Think wire size. It might not improve charge time but it removes some of the heat and loss at high current. Ohms law man. Do your engineering.

 

[timbop]

I always think it's odd that the 50kw chargers in my area are so expensive. Usually $5 connect fee and .30 per minute, definitely not a good deal

50kw was state of the art just a few years ago, but now they look like fossils. Unfortunately many states are still putting those in on highways, which does as much to inhibit BEV adoption as help it. At this point they're only useful as a backup option if faster chargers are unavailable.

 

[Whatstreet]

I am in favor of sticking with 400v for a while..... all the connectors, insulation, inverter, dc-dc, etc gets way more expensive once you are running over 600v.

I have virtually no need for faster charging as I charge 99% of the time at home overnight. I would hate to bump the cost of the vehicle up for a feature I really don't need.

One of the biggest complaints regarding electric vehicles is charge time. People don't want to spend more time than they do now at a gas pump.

 

[Whatstreet]

I used to own a 800v Taycan for a year and its DC charging speed was much much faster than the Mach-e.
The 270kw was just a max under perfect conditions, even 200kw is very optimistic but it easily stayed above 150kw for a lot of time. It would also stay up to 80kw all the way to 85% SoC when the battery was warm. The Taycan would typically take half the time my Mach-e needs under the same conditions (same charger, similar external temperature, etc).

Yes, it can be done. But it is more expensive, that's for sure.

 

[ARK]

50kw was state of the art just a few years ago, but now they look like fossils. Unfortunately many states are still putting those in on highways, which does as much to inhibit BEV adoption as help it. At this point they're only useful as a backup option if faster chargers are unavailable.

I think they still can have a future at movie theatres, malls, sit-down restaurants, basically anywhere someone can expect to spend 1-3 hours at. I agree that they are terrible for highway charging and new ones should not be installed for this purpose.

 

[RedStallion]

The 800v charging will really become a necessity with the larger battery packs. Heavier trucks and SUVs may require over 200kWh batteries to make them viable substitutes for the gas siblings. So having a 800v 350kW charging will be necessary to fill up in reasonable time.

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