EV's really do save money...

[LagerHead]

Someone explain why the Tesla M3 and MY are in the "Luxury" category in that chart. I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I don't consider those cars luxury by any stretch like an Audi, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti. Not saying this to put Tesla down, but "luxury"?

I mean, they are missing BUTTONS!!

Two possibilities:

1) There has been a concerted effort to make EV's (and Teslas in particular) seem excessively expensive and "only for rich people", regardless of the actual cost. This furthers that narritive.

2) The higher level of performance and features with a dedicated charging network for trips.

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[dbsb3233]

Two possibilities:

1) There has been a concerted effort to make EV's (and Teslas in particular) seem excessively expensive and "only for rich people", regardless of the actual cost. This furthers that narritive.

2) The higher level of performance and features with a dedicated charging network for trips.

Agree to a certainly amount. BEVs simply are expensive, because the batteries are so expensive. The batteries add anywhere from $10k-$20k to the comparable ICE vehicle (depending on the size of the battery). So it's nearly impossible to make an "economy" BEV that can compete on specs with a $25k economy ICE.

So manufacturers decide to start off on the other end -- build higher end BEVs where that $10k-$20k extra wasn't as much of a difference to buyers that could afford a $50k+ car.

Now as batteries are gradually getting cheaper, we're starting to see the offerings creep down the price scale some. But they have to get a lot cheaper than this to be competitive at the lower end.

 

[LagerHead]

Agree to a certainly amount. BEVs simply are expensive, because the batteries are so expensive. The batteries add anywhere from $10k-$20k to the comparable ICE vehicle (depending on the size of the battery). So it's nearly impossible to make an "economy" BEV that can compete on specs with a $25k economy ICE.

So manufacturers decide to start off on the other end -- build higher end BEVs where that $10k-$20k extra wasn't as much of a difference to buyers that could afford a $50k+ car.

Now as batteries are gradually getting cheaper, we're starting to see the offerings creep down the price scale some. But they have to get a lot cheaper than this to be competitive at the lower end.

I generally agree with you but would like to point out that it's the middle priced car segment that most new car buyers participate in. That's the segment that is neither "economy" or "luxury". The average new car buyer in the US spent $40,107 in the most recent quarter for which we have data, well above the entry price for some pretty nice EV's.

Combined with the well documented lower operational costs of an EV, any attempt to position them as "only for rich people" is an obvious attempt to make your average person feel like they can't afford to own an EV and shouldn't try to.

Which is hilarious because, before Tesla released the Model S in 2012, the common refrain from the same people trying to protect ICE interests were that EV's were slow and undesirable golf carts that couldn't maintian freeway speeds, they were dangerous and will make you look silly or goofy. It didn't matter that EV's had been produced and sold, at least in small numbers, that proved those stereotypes wrong, the refrain was that EV's were not real cars. Now they try to say they are so nice, only rich people can own them!

 

[woody]

Rest assured, the Coal, Oil, Gas, and Utilities(COGU)will fight renewable energy at every turn until the bitter end. And the end is near.
You are correct, they have and will continue to misrepresent (lie, actually) information regarding EVs, solar, and wind. All the negatives directly, in their clever indirect way, originate with them (COGU).
Keep in mind that COGU has immense power: economic(imagine if you had those kind of subsidies, no taxes, etc.); political (they own the democrats since FDR. [want a free lunch - be a left wing political science major and wallah(voila), (sing)I'm in the money!].
I may be wrong, but I think most of the participants of this forum are, at the very minimum, partially motivated by a desire to do the right thing.
And they are mostly middle/upper middle class folks, not rich people(a few exceptions).
After all, $50k for a car twenty years ago was a lot, not so today. And did you think your abode would be worth this much 20 years ago?
What would Hank had done if no one took a chance on his contraption at the beginning of the last century?

 

[LagerHead]

Rest assured, the Coal, Oil, Gas, and Utilities(COGU)will fight renewable energy at every turn until the bitter end. And the end is near.
You are correct, they have and will continue to misrepresent (lie, actually) information regarding EVs, solar, and wind. All the negatives directly, in their clever indirect way, originate with them (COGU).
Keep in mind that COGU has immense power: economic(imagine if you had those kind of subsidies, no taxes, etc.); political (they own the democrats since FDR. [want a free lunch - be a left wing political science major and wallah(voila), (sing)I'm in the money!].

I think most people would not agree that coal, oil and gas interests are more affiliated or aligned with the democratic or left-leaning side of the political spectrum than the right. Coal, oil and gas interests have long been more aligned with the side that wanted to look the other way (or actively help them) as they exploited fossil fuel resouces without concern for the ecological, or health consequences. We all know where the non-sensical term "clean coal" came from!

In otherwords, I thought it was generally accepted that the political right was the party of oil, gas and coal interests. Never mind that these interests always make sure to donate lots of money to both sides to cover all their bases. I mean, they didn't become as powerful as they did without crafting both parties to be their right and left-hand men! They had support no matter which side was in power. I think that's beginning to change.

But let's avoid the temptation to turn this forum into a right vs. left political war. I just don't agree with your characterization in general.

 

[MightyJawa]

The coal industry should absolutely be behind EV adoption. ICE vehicles can’t run on coal, but EVs can.

 

[Ma9573]

I think most people would not agree that coal, oil and gas interests are more affiliated or aligned with the democratic or left-leaning side of the political spectrum than the right. Coal, oil and gas interests have long been more aligned with the side that wanted to look the other way (or actively help them) as they exploited fossil fuel resouces without concern for the ecological, or health consequences. We all know where the non-sensical term "clean coal" came from!

In otherwords, I thought it was generally accepted that the political right was the party of oil, gas and coal interests. Never mind that these interests always make sure to donate lots of money to both sides to cover all their bases. I mean, they didn't become as powerful as they did without crafting both parties to be their right and left-hand men! They had support no matter which side was in power. I think that's beginning to change.

But let's avoid the temptation to turn this forum into a right vs. left political war. I just don't agree with your characterization in general.

All I'll say is that both sides receive MILLIONS from Oil and Gas companies. You can track it all here:
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=E01&cycle=2020
Democrats got $9 million. Republicans $30 million

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