EVSE 48A (Hardwired) vs 40A (Plug In)

[BadgerGreg]

I bought the ChargePoint as well. I’m getting a dedicated 60A circuit and hardwiring it to take advantage of the MME’s 48A max. The price is reasonable ($100 less than Ford’s option) and it gets really good reviews from the experts.

I’m not concerned about the potential for unit failure and not having a 240V outlet as a backup. This is a solid state product and should be very reliable.

Sponsored

 

[DBC]

This is actually pretty simple. Run wire for 60A, use 40A breakers, and install a 14-50 outlet. That will let you use the included Ford charger. At some later point in time you can decide if you need a faster charger. If you don't you can just keep using the Ford charger or get something like a Grizzle-E, Chargepoint, or Clipper Creek. They should all come with a 14-50 plugs or in hardwired versions (see discussion below).

The easy to address issue is to always run the wire for 60A. It doesn't cost much more and there is never any downside. The next easiest to address issue is to match the breakers to the device. If decide you want or need faster home charging (not likely but you never know), it's a piece of cake -- fast and cheap -- to swap out the 40A breakers for 60A ones.

The bigger issue is whether to ignore the code requirements for a GFCI outlet. The problem is the EVSE already has a GFCI built in, and having two GFCIs on the same circuit can create a lot of false faults. That's a total PITA but the code writers assumed anything could be plugged in, including devices that don't have a GFCI, and hence required a GFCI outlet in a garage. Personally I've just ignored this requirement since the only device I plug in is an EVSE and I think the requirement does more harm than good. (Plus my outlets may predate the code changes which require a GFCI).

You can dispense with the GFCI outlet if you are willing or want to hardwire the EVSE. However, in your case you want to temporarily use the Ford mobile charger, so that route isn't available. (I do note that Ford recommends using a GFCI outlet so perhaps it has made some provision for the having two GFCIs).

 

[exact33]

I am considering the Charge Point Home Flex as well with the 40a plug. I am leaning this direction vs the hardwired solution given the flexibility to swap later on if needed.

My utility will give me $300 back on the charger and my state another $700 based on the entire installation cost. The Ford connected charger is not eligible for utility rebate.

 

[Franchise]

I have 100amps in my garage split in 2 50amp plug in with 2 older juicebox 40s for 2 phev.

Good customer service. One of mine had a fault and they sent me a quick replacement. These work fine.

Check with your electric company for any deals and/or rebates. I collect juicepoints when I signed up for their rewards program. 1,000Points=$1; every so often I have them send me (by PayPal) the $. Probably gotten back about $200 in total?

Any of the plug in options is probably just fine.

 

[DBC]

Yes on Grizzl-e. The extra 8 amps might get you an additional 2 miles per charging hour.

More like five or six miles but a valid point.

I’m not concerned about the potential for unit failure and not having a 240V outlet as a backup. This is a solid state product and should be very reliable.

Is this why the EVSE come with a ten year warranty? it's also sometimes easier to pull the plug than to flip the breakers if you need to reset the EVSE. That said, putting in an outlet is simple to do, and you could charge at 120v if in dire need. Or find a local DC charger! LOL

I am considering the Charge Point Home Flex as well with the 40a plug. I am leaning this direction vs the hardwired solution given the flexibility to swap later on if needed.

Just be aware of the GFCI issue discussed above. And definitely run wire for a 60A circuit.

 

[Brussam]

I went with the ChargePoint because it was 48 amps and available. The power company likes it because it can be limited for charge hours and is online. But we are using the MME internal scheduling.

 

[Evermore]

I’ve found the 40A plug in to be more than sufficient. I bought the Juicebox 40A from my local utility for a discount and installed the plug myself.

Biggest charge I’ve done is from 16% to 80% and it took about 7 hours, but well within the “overnight” lower charge period.

Go ahead and ignore the time of unplug. Yet another glitchy/odd thing with the app.

The piece that I didn’t factor in initially, but that does matter, is that you shouldn’t charge to 100% unless absolutely necessary. I set to 80%, so that saves quite a bit of time not going that extra 20%. Not totally sure what would happen to charge time above 80% as I haven’t tried it yet (no need).

As for a connected charger. I agree not necessary, but the piece I like is to log into the charger to check the volts and amps and charge time log as the car flat out doesn’t show the amp and volts when charging and is wack with showing charge time (as seen in the pic above). So basically I use it for reporting. All of the scheduling function is done in car/app (also glitchy) so don’t get a connected station for that reason.

 

[gtin]

I bought the chargepoint homeflex with a Nema 14-50. Got 30% off with the federal tax credit. I think it was form 8911. I pulled the wire myself from the box to the garage and installed the outlet as well. I only hired the electrician to put the breaker and to hookup the terminals in the main panel.

 

[dbsb3233]

There's another consideration that could make NOT charging at high power better. Check your electric bill and see if you have a demand charge on it. That's a high rate applied to your peak kW slice of the month. High power charging would probably establish a new peak and higher demand charge. That's what happened on my bill. My previous demand peaks were 6-8 kW. 40A charging pushed the peak up to 14 kW.

I just lowered my Grizzl-E from 40A to 24A. That's still plenty for my needs anyway.

Point being, just going for more power because you can isn't always the best choice.

 

[Evermore]

Grizzl-e plug in all the way! Only $399 (plus you can get a 30% tax credit on any of them) for a good no frills EVSE.

Just did my taxes, and assumed I would be able to do this. Reading through all the exact documentation, it didn’t appear I could. I’m no tax attorney or CPA but the piece that was worrisome was that the property seems to have to be considered business/investment. Specifically line 2 and 10 on this:

Just an FYI. Maybe others have more guidance on this?

 

[DBC]

Just an FYI. Maybe others have more guidance on this?

Not following you on this. Assuming this is a home charger, then Line 2 is zero and you file the form. For example, if the charger and install is $1000 on Line 1, and none of it is a business expense on Line 2, then Line 10 would be $1000-$0=$1000. This gets multiplied by .30 on Line 11 and, subject to other limitations, that's your credit. Unsure why you think it needs to be business related. If 50% was for business then Line 10 would be .5 X $1000 and your personal credit would be based on that.

 

[Evermore]

Not following you on this. Assuming this is a home charger, then Line 2 is zero and you file the form.

Ah, I see. So the “do not file this form unless you are claiming a credit on 9” is only relevant if line 10 is 0?

Alas. Not gonna fix it now.

 

[exact33]

More like five or six miles but a valid point.

Is this why the EVSE come with a ten year warranty? it's also sometimes easier to pull the plug than to flip the breakers if you need to reset the EVSE. That said, putting in an outlet is simple to do, and you could charge at 120v if in dire need. Or find a local DC charger! LOL

Just be aware of the GFCI issue discussed above. And definitely run wire for a 60A circuit.

Thanks for the heads up. I am having an electrician do the work so I will ask for 60a to be installed

 

[dml105]

I had my electrician wire a 14-50 outlet with 60A rated wiring. I can hardwire a 48A EVSE down the road if necessary, but for now, I think I will be more than able to make do with the 40A Ford Mobile Charger. I don't travel 270 miles a day, or on back to back days, so I doubt that I will ever need the difference between 40A and 48A. (And I also can't understand a need to get a less-than-48A EVSE when a 40A EVSA comes with the car.) But I did want to futureproof my choice.

 

[Njia]

I ordered the Ford Connected Charge Station 48-amp and like many it’s currently on stop-sale backorder (my local dealer said out until April).

I’ve been driving my new Mach E w ext battery (10 miles each way) to a pubic charge station, when my battery level gets low (30%). Not optimal and certainly not how I envisioned my initial EV experience would have started.

My dilemma is I don’t want to pay for an electrician to come out and install a 240V NEMA 14-50 wall outlet only to change the configuration later $$ when the Ford Connected Station is shipped out. Plus if I pay for an electrician to install the EVSE, why not get the better kW/h option.

So now I’m weighing out my options on what to do.
A) do I cancel the Ford Connected Charge Station and re-order another 3rd party EVSE
B) or wait it out until the unit ships

Then I read on the Mach E forum where some users make great points; do you really need a faster charge where you travel that far that warrants the 48A/h option. Another post read, it’s better to have the 240V/40A 9.6 kW/h NEMA 14-50 wall outlet option for if the EVSE unit goes bad. You can simply swap it out with the Ford Mobile Charger.

Here are my EVSE options I am considering:

Ford Connected Charge Station $799.00 (currently Stop Sale published 2/19 until sometime in April)
up to 240V, 48A charge rate, when paired with a 60A circuit
hard-wired
20 ft Cable with SAE J1772 standard plug
UL-Listed, eligible for utility rebates and other incentives

Pros/Cons:
Use the FordPass App to remotely lock and unlock the charge station
Hard wired box is not optimal if the unit goes bad or if there’s a newer better model
cord length is 20 ft, whereas enel X has the best distance of 25 ft
Pricier than the other EVSEs

ChargePoint Home Flex $699 (the only top rated 48A charger in stock at the moment)
up to 240V, 50A charge rate, when paired with a 65A circuit
Can be hardwired or NEMA 14-50 Plug configured
- On a 50 amp breaker with the NEMA 14-50 Plug option, this configuration will provide up to 40 amps (9.6kW)
- In order to get 48 amps 11kW+, you need to hardwire to a 70 amp breaker or special order a 65A breaker (50A * 1.25 = 62.5, any breaker over 62.5)
23-foot charging cable SAE J1772 standard plug
UL-Listed, eligible for utility rebates and other incentives

Pros/Cons:
Availability Now vs Later
Non vendor specific

enel X JuiceBox 48 $659 (not available until late march/early April I’m told)
up to 240V, 48A / 11.5 kW
25-foot charging cable SAE J1772 standard plug
UL Listed, eligible for utility rebates and other incentives

Alternative option is the enel X JuiceBox 40 (Hardwired $629, Plug In $619 both available)
up to 240V, 40A, 9.6 kW charge rate
25-foot charging cable SAE J1772 standard plug
UL Listed, eligible for utility rebates and other incentives

Pros/Cons:
Non vendor specific
cord length is 25 ft

Charge Times:
Ford Connected Charge Station, ChargePoint Home Flex or JuiceBox 48 - 240V X 48A/h = 11.52 kW/h = 10.1 hours to fully charge a 300-mile extended-range Mach-E battery
ChargePoint or JuiceBox 40 using 240V/40A 9.6 kW/h NEMA 14-50 wall outlet needs 12 hours to fully charge a 300-mile extended-range Mach-E battery
Ford Mobile Charger using 240V/30A 7.2 kW/h NEMA 14-50 wall outlet needs 15 hours to fully charge a 300-mile extended-range Mach-E battery
Not even considering the 120-volt plug (emergency use only option) 95 – 100 hours

Public Locations:
150 kW/h - The estimated time required to DC fast-charge a Mustang Mach-E from 10 percent to 80 percent charge is approx. 45 minutes for the extended-range battery
50 kW/h - The estimated time required to DC fast-charge a Mustang Mach-E from 10 percent to 80 percent charge is approx. 85 minutes for the extended-range battery
22 kW/h - The estimated time required to DC fast-charge a Mustang Mach-E from 10 percent to 80 percent charge is approx. 7 hours for the extended-range battery

* Once a battery charge reached 80%, charge time is significantly reduced. The battery will accept a higher rate of charge when it is more “empty”. Cold weather, driving behaviors, vehicle maintenance, and battery age and state of health will have an influence

Looking for guidance on what to do, again Im new to EV. ~Newbie

I have an older Siemens PowerMax charger that my local utility company (DTE Energy) installed at their expense 8 years ago when I got my Fusion Energi. It is capable of just 30A, but it’s plenty for charging overnight. Additionally, DTE installed a separate meter when they hardwired the charger and if I charge between the hours of 11 PM and 9 AM, my rate is just $0.12/kWh. That’s not free, but it’s darn close when compared to public charging stations.

Sponsored