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Ford Range Increase Coming?

efisher

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That is correct when you do not intend to use the car for a long commute. You still need to have a good SUV (X5/X7 level) if you want to travel with your family on long trips.
It also depends on what you consider a long trip. I live just outside of NYC and for me a long trip would be Lake George, Boston, or Washington DC.
 

DBC

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It's a ridiculously low 48 MPH. His 80 MPH comment is meaningless. They don't give us a number at a continuous 80 MPH, they give us a number that's an average of many speeds (just one of which happens to be 80 MPH).
He's presented very good and on point information and you're giving it short shrift. The reason there isn't a steady 80 MPH number is that this isn't a common drive cycle. US06 is representative of aggressive freeway commuting and hence useful.

To some extent you're not happy with the EPA numbers because the EPA has been tasked with finding the MPG and not the range of the vehicle, whereas you're interested in the range. But this is not a big problem. Since you'd get more range driving at a steady 70 MPH than you would driving the US06 cycle (even with regen accelerations use a lot of energy), then, if the Highway numbers are heavily weighted towards US06, you can get a good range estimate of steady 70 MPH by using the highway numbers. (Note the MPGe number is from the wall not the battery)

But the bigger question is why this matters given the ranges we're talking about. If the range exceeds the number of miles you're willing to drive before stopping, the range per se isn't a significant factor. With an ICE the time spent actually refueling is dwarfed by the time doing other things -- getting off the highway, going to the bathroom, getting something to eat, and so on. That's reversed with an EV. With an EV the time devoted to refueling dwarfs the time spent doing other things. This, combined with the fact that the number of kWh you can transfer to the vehicle is linear with time, means that stopping twice for 30 kWh won't take any more time than stopping once for 60 kWh.
 

DBC

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Just curious - why do you say 48 MPH is low? My daily commute to the office (well, when I actually go to the office these days) takes anywhere from 45 minutes to 1 hour 15 minutes, almost all of it “expressway” driving. The door-to-door distance is 22 miles. I did the drive once or twice in about 30 minutes in the very early days of the lockdown when roads were “deserted”, but under regular conditions, my car will rarely see sustained driving speeds above 45 MPH.
So sorry. That sounds like a brutal commute. I wonder if your "expressway" will be part of the geo fenced autonomous roadway system. Would be great if it were. Otherwise it will have to be adaptive cruise, which isn't so bad.

One silver lining is that at those speeds your range will probably be 350 miles! LOL
 

LYTMCQ

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The reason there isn't a steady 80 MPH number is that this isn't a common drive cycle.
My 50+ mile AM commute is mostly at high speed but the average is much less, just like the EPA test.

57.15 Miles Driven

77.77 Rated Miles Used

ODO 18,785.70 - 18,842.85

Avg Speed
56 MPH

Max Speed
73 MPH

And this with cruise control at 5AM on the interstate which is 80% of the drive.
 

Jolteon

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Some would argue that a fair price is what someone is willing to pay.
That would not be a logical argument then, because it would assume humans are rational actors in their transactions, which they are not. That's why ECON 101 doesn't actually explain the world we really live in.
 

jeffdawgfan

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Will be glad when the cars start coming out and people stop arguing over "what might be and things such as whether humidity will affect the way your doors open etc............" Then we can discuss real experiences and observations.
 

dbsb3233

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Since you'd get more range driving at a steady 70 MPH than you would driving the US06 cycle
Less driving range, not more. Higher speed shortens BEV range. Especially getting up into 70+ range.
 

dbsb3233

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If the range exceeds the number of miles you're willing to drive before stopping, the range per se isn't a significant factor.
But it doesn't. That's the point.

For example, our common I-70/I-15 road trip (785 miles) takes 2 gas stops in an ICE. Plug that route into ABRP in the AWD ER MME and it's 6 stops, averaging 30 minutes each. Adds more that 2 hours to the drive.

Do *some* drivers like to stop 6 times for 30 minutes each when driving ICE? Probably, but I suspect that's a very low%. Most people don't stop that often and that long. Which means it takes more stops and much longer on a full day drive for most people.
 

dbsb3233

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The reason there isn't a steady 80 MPH number is that this isn't a common drive cycle.
Doesn't have to be 80 per se, but long drives at interstate speeds ARE common in the US. 70 or 75 are the most common interstate speed limits driving long distance. And such long road trips are where range matters most. Range for commuting around home is mostly irrelevant for most people, as their around-home daily drives are usually well within the range of newer BEVs now.
 

DBC

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Less driving range, not more. Higher speed shortens BEV range. Especially getting up into 70+ range.
Your statement is completely true but also irrelevant with respect to his point. Yes a steady 70 MPH will burn more watts/mile than 60 MPH. But his point is that the Highway number is heavily based on US06, and US06 is far more aggressive than a steady 70 MPG. IOW US06 will use more watts per mile than a steady 70 MPH. Just the physics of the matter.

Are you confusing HWFET (the highway drive cycle) with the highway number?
 

dbsb3233

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Your statement is completely true but also irrelevant with respect to his point. Yes a steady 70 MPH will burn more watts/mile than 60 MPH. But his point is that the Highway number is heavily based on US06, and US06 is far more aggressive than a steady 70 MPG. IOW US06 will use more watts per mile than a steady 70 MPH. Just the physics of the matter.

Are you confusing HWFET (the highway drive cycle) with the highway number?
That's surely true in ICE but I doubt it's true in BEV. The high speed penalty is huge in BEV. US06 may be more aggressive, but it also contrains regen and a much lower 48 MPH average, both of which BEVs do far better with than high speed throughout.
 

dbsb3233

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LYTMCQ

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Don't need to take it from me. Car & Driver thinks so too..
Don't need Car and Driver, take it from me, a 40,000 mile EV driver (likely more EV miles that entire C&D staff), you can easily make the EV's EPA numbers.

As with ICE cars, you do better than EPA in nice weather, less than EPA in bad weather.
 



 









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