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Ford Range Increase Coming?

1pt21Gigawatts

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Well, for applying to city driving maybe. They're kinda crap for applying to highway road tripping.

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That’s pretty interesting, especially knowing what we know about that Norway Drive which was like 300+ going like 55mph. Yes we would have to guess what the ratio is, I would think we would compare most on rating to in the Audi Or the bolt since Ford always benchmarks Chevy.

would put us at like 250-260mi highway and like 330ish when hypermiling like Norway.
 

DBC

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It also turns out that for this particular drive, it actually means the difference in the cost of a hotel night each direction. 785 miles was just enough that we could do it same day in about 12 hours, which is our practical limit for a day. In a BEV that pushes it to 14 hours, which we'll have to break into 2 days. But that wouldn't be the case on a 600 mile drive. Basically the longer the road trip, the more the impact.
Well 785 miles is a very long day. And definitely the longer the drive the less desirable a BEV is because of the charging time.

The only BEV that I can see working for this drive is a Rivian SUV. It has a range of 400 miles and, far more importantly, can handle 300 kW charging. So that becomes a couple of stops and only over an hour of charging. Still not great but you could do in a day if you absolutely needed to.

For longer trips I've been known to rent a minivan or a large SUV. Those things ride great, even the ones rental agencies have. I save the miles on my car and the extra expense doesn't seem like a big deal because it's part of a trip. Some people think renting isn't desirable -- much less a minivan -- but I'll rent whenever I need extra space my vehicles don't offer. Note we're talking a time or two a year (or given current circumstances once every two years), not once a month. On the other hand, if time isn't an issue I might take the Mach-E, especially if it has autonomous driving. Have to see once I have one and have someplace to go. :(
 

dbsb3233

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That’s pretty interesting, especially knowing what we know about that Norway Drive which was like 300+ going like 55mph. Yes we would have to guess what the ratio is, I would think we would compare most on rating to in the Audi Or the bolt since Ford always benchmarks Chevy.

would put us at like 250-260mi highway and like 330ish when hypermiling like Norway.
Google pegs that Norway drive at a 47 MPH average if driving the speed limit, although it's possible that there could be some 55 MPH stretches in there (90 KPH). And some city on each end with some regen.

Overall, 47 is probably still in the wheelhouse for BEV efficiency. Still fairly low air resistance, and better motor RPM.

From what I've read, sounds like many BEVs can even go up to 60 or 65 without serious loss. But then it really starts to fall off above that. Sounds like the difference between 60 and 75 could be major (like losing 30-40 miles). Although we just won't know specifically for the MME until we try it. That'll be one of my first tests -- doing a 75 MPH stretch on I-25. That's my drive to Costco anyway.
 

dbsb3233

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Well 785 miles is a very long day. And definitely the longer the drive the less desirable a BEV is because of the charging time.

The only BEV that I can see working for this drive is a Rivian SUV. It has a range of 400 miles and, far more importantly, can handle 300 kW charging. So that becomes a couple of stops and only over an hour of charging. Still not great but you could do in a day if you absolutely needed to.

For longer trips I've been known to rent a minivan or a large SUV. Those things ride great, even the ones rental agencies have. I save the miles on my car and the extra expense doesn't seem like a big deal because it's part of a trip. Some people think renting isn't desirable -- much less a minivan -- but I'll rent whenever I need extra space my vehicles don't offer. Note we're talking a time or two a year (or given current circumstances once every two years), not once a month. On the other hand, if time isn't an issue I might take the Mach-E, especially if it has autonomous driving. Have to see once I have one and have someplace to go. :(
That's my thinking too, although we'll still have an Escape in the garage too so we don't even have to rent a car. Just have to pick which vehicle we wanna use. Logically we should just keep using the Escape for that, but we'll try the Mach-E on that drive (Denver-Vegas) in the Spring as a test. Maybe we'll find that switching to a bunch more 30-minute stops isn't so bad. We're already starting to take it a bit easier. We used to always drive straight through, but lately we've been breaking up the return drive with a hotel night (shorter daylight window driving east). 12 hours is pushing the limit for a single-day drive, and we ain't getting any younger. 😉
 

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That's my thinking too, although we'll still have an Escape in the garage too so we don't even have to rent a car. Just have to pick which vehicle we wanna use. Logically we should just keep using the Escape for that, but we'll try the Mach-E on that drive (Denver-Vegas) in the Spring as a test. Maybe we'll find that switching to a bunch more 30-minute stops isn't so bad. We're already starting to take it a bit easier. We used to always drive straight through, but lately we've been breaking up the return drive with a hotel night (shorter daylight window driving east). 12 hours is pushing the limit for a single-day drive, and we ain't getting any younger. 😉
Yes having the option of the Escape makes things pretty easy. I think the range issue will sort itself once you have the vehicle. I would not put too much stock in the Car and Driver numbers. I've had a couple of cars on the list and have never seen such lower numbers, and I can be a fairly aggressive driver.

Since the EPA range number is heavily weighted towards the City number, my shortcut calculation is to take the Highway MPGe number, divide it by the City MPGe number, and multiply by the range. That overweights the Highway by a small amount but it's easy and simple to do and, in my experience, will give you a very accurate approximation of the range you can expect.

In this regard, CARWOW did a similar test as Car and Driver and got quite different results. For example, the Nissan Leaf ended up at 203 miles rather than my projected 177 miles. The tests weren't exactly the same, one difference being CARWOW had more a steady 70 MPH rather than a steady 75 MPH. That can make a difference but still doesn't explain the differing results.

To me 785 miles in a day is too much for current BEVs. For trips more like 400 miles/day I think the Mach E will work OK, especially if you have the hands free driver option. That will really help on long trips.
 

LYTMCQ

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They're kinda crap for applying to highway road tripping.
Only if you let CD do the driving.

It's like Consumer Reports who do a harsh "real world" and derate everybody about 20%. Sure you can drive that way if you want but your average speed/time is going to end up about 1-2% difference in an ICE driving for mpg or driving for speed for the overall trip. Average speed for the trip rules.

Real world, driving Tesla on the PDX-SLC highway (aka I84), 770 miles.

In the Subaru, it's a 12 hour trip.

In the Model 3, it's a 14 hour trip.

Five over speed limit with 75 mph max.

I gave up driving it, young person's game, but wanted to see how Tesla could do it.

And that's with 2019 tech, Kona and new Model 3/Y have heat pumps which would probably knock off one charging stop making it 12 vs. 13.5.

Dinner at 7:30P at Stein's instead of 6:00P.

Welcome to 2035. It works.
 

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The Porsche tycan 4A has an EPA rating of 203, but insideevs drove it 75 mph for $277 miles a couple weeks ago. That same organization drove the Model 3 @75 for less than its EPA rating.
Porsche and Audi have both understated their EPA numbers on first models. Mfgs can sell a car with whatever EPA number they want as long as it is not over the actual EPA.

Porsche has been easily doing 240 (likely it's actual EPA test number) vs. the 204 rating Porsche is selling it at. Lowballing and exceeding expectations, smart marketing of first EV's.

Kona EV with heat pump consistently wins the real world Winter EV tests in meeting its EPA numbers. E-tron also but because Audi left EPA test numbers on the table.

Model 3 before the heat pump, ends up in the middle of the pack.

Just as with ICE and for the same reasons, efficiency loss in cold weather, EV's don't make EPA numbers in Winter but exceed them in Summer.
 

dbsb3233

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For trips more like 400 miles/day I think the Mach E will work OK
Agreed. A 1-stop (that you plan a meal for) would be quite easy if there's a good midpoint charger and a good destination charger. The real compromise starts coming in when you have more than 1-2 stops required. A 30-45 minute stop for a meal is normal even in ICE. The 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, not so much. And realistically, 4 is about the most you can get into a 12-hour drive day anyway before having to break it into 2 days.

It really changes the way we plan trips too. Much more involved. But even that will improve when there's better charger coverage, and more backups to depend on.
 

dbsb3233

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Only if you let CD do the driving.
Pretty sure I can get on an open highway and set the cruise control at 75 MPH just as easily as C/D did. Which is exactly what I do (80 in Utah).
 

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Porsche and Audi have both understated their EPA numbers on first models. Mfgs can sell a car with whatever EPA number they want as long as it is not over the actual EPA.

Porsche has been easily doing 240 (likely it's actual EPA test number) vs. the 204 rating Porsche is selling it at. Lowballing and exceeding expectations, smart marketing of first EV's.

Kona EV with heat pump consistently wins the real world Winter EV tests in meeting its EPA numbers. E-tron also but because Audi left EPA test numbers on the table.

Model 3 before the heat pump, ends up in the middle of the pack.

Just as with ICE and for the same reasons, efficiency loss in cold weather, EV's don't make EPA numbers in Winter but exceed them in Summer.

It seems like you're telling me how unreliable EPA numbers are.
 

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It seems like you're telling me how unreliable EPA numbers are.
Facts are telling you you can make EPA numbers in ICE and EV. Exceeding the numbers in many cases, Porche and Audi EV's.
 

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Facts are telling you you can make EPA numbers in ICE and EV. Exceeding the numbers in many cases, Porche and Audi EV's.

But they are not useful at all in predicting highway range. That's my only point. You're confusing me with somebody else if you think I'm saying that no cars can achieve EPA range on the highway. my only point is that EPA numbers are not very useful for predicting how far a car can drive at 75 mph.
 

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From what I've read, sounds like many BEVs can even go up to 60 or 65 without serious loss. But then it really starts to fall off above that. Sounds like the difference between 60 and 75 could be major (like losing 30-40 miles).
You've got it right. The Bolt speedometer efficiency feedback goes from green to lime-green/yellow between 60 & 65. Solid yellow by the time you reach 70. You will definitely see a range difference at 75.
 

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Over the past 14 months, I’ve found the ABRP estimates to be very accurate as long as you select the right vehicle and accurately set your starting temperature.

For those that don’t know, the ABRP site factors in vehicle power use rate, average speed, changes in elevation, and weather. It’s a great place to start when playing with sample trips. A couple times I thought the ABRP trip times were way too high and that I could do better. In the end, I was wrong as my actual time came close to the ABRP plan.

The biggest challenges to trip time were less than optimal public charger placement along the way and low capacity chargers (50 kW only).
 

LYTMCQ

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But they are not useful at all in predicting highway range.
Well all the facts posted above show EPA numbers work for predicting mpg/range of cars which is why people can drive in real world and easily make them, highway, local and combined.

I get better than EPA in Summer and less than EPA in Winter on Model 3, same as on the ICE Subaru.

EPA tests provide good range estimate for EV's.

EVs with heat pumps, Kona and Model 3/Y, do much better in Winter so I expect that tech to start showing up on more EV's. Kind of race between mfg to eliminate the EV Winter deration via heat pumps and EPA modifying the tests for EV specifics.
 



 









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