HOA Compliant

[BigMach-E]

Hey all,

Last year I had a NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed by a licensed electrician who is very skilled. I typically have my FMC plugged in most of the time. Everything has been working great. The receptacle is outside, in a waterproof housing box. I live in a place that doesn’t see much rain.

I just got notice from my HOA for a cease and desist letter saying that I need to have a permit for the charger. This is annoying to say the least. There is concern that the setup isn’t weatherproof or rated for the outdoors. How would you approach this? I’ve unplugged my charger and closed the receptacle housing box, will take pictures and send them. Any other ideas?

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[machefan2022]

Did your electrician pull a permit with your local jurisdiction? If so provide the closed out permit. If not, open a permit after the fact, pay the fee, have it inspected and then provide the closed out permit.

 

[RickMachE]

Did you get a permit and an inspection from the city/town? Do the HOA rules specifically require approval on any such installation (i.e. have you actually read the rules)?

We got our installation done last year, with a permit and inspection from the township. Our HOA has no oversight, it's in the garage anyway. This year the HOA's board proposed a massive overhaul of the rules, including adding in compliance requirements for vehicle charging. 91% of the homeowners told them what to do with their proposed changes, they needed 2/3 to approve and you 9.1%.

 

[mjs020294]

I just got notice from my HOA for a cease and desist letter saying that I need to have a permit for the charger. This is annoying to say the least. There is concern that the setup isn’t weatherproof or rated for the outdoors. How would you approach this? I’ve unplugged my charger and closed the receptacle housing box, will take pictures and send them. Any other ideas?

If they used the word permit I am presuming your electrician did not pull permits. HOA's give approval they do not permit. If there is no permit and your house burns down the chances are your insurance company would walk away.

 

[kdonnel]

I am assuming you live in a condo or townhouse or something like that where you share a wall with another owner?

I could see an HOA in a single family home having an issue with placement if it does not meet design guidelines but I don't see them caring about permits.

In a multi unit dwelling though I could see the HOA perhaps having authority to ensure that all exterior work done is done in a code compliant and permitted manner that does not interfere with other owners in the same structure.

 

[timbop]

Did your electrician pull a permit with your local jurisdiction? If so provide the closed out permit. If not, open a permit after the fact, pay the fee, have it inspected and then provide the closed out permit.

THIS

 

[RickMachE]

I am assuming you live in a condo or townhouse or something like that where you share a wall with another owner?

I could see an HOA in a single family home having an issue with placement if it does not meet design guidelines but I don't see them caring about permits.

In a multi unit dwelling though I could see the HOA perhaps having authority to ensure that all exterior work done is done in a code compliant and permitted manner.

Bob puts in a 240v charger outside his garage, and grounds it to the flagpole in his yard, that sits in a pool of water when it rains.

Mary, his neighbor, shares that pool of water because her lawn is lower than Bob's. Mary lets her dog, Muffy, into the yard and Muffy turns into a crispy critter.

Even in a single family unit, HOAs care about you doing stupid things that may affect your neighbors, or the common areas (i.e. the street by the charger you installed).

Anyone not checking with their city/town regarding permit requires before installing a level 2 charger is asking for a future problem IMO.

 

[4sallypat]

.......
1. Is your property a condo? Or is it a town home with HOA designated "common areas"?
2. Does everything associated with your outlet and wiring reside on property deeded to you? (YES is the best answer)
3. When you are charging, is your charge cable run out over common property? (NO is the best answer).
4. Does the appearance of your outlet significantly change the appearance of the property? (NO is the best answer, but it is subjective).

Here, my state (Maryland) has specific rules (laws) concerning condo owners rights. (They can be read on line). See how your state handles owners rights and responsibilities. It is possible that your planning department can help you, too. In sum - laws and ordnances should be in place to guide your solution.

Well stated and very good points!

I live in an HOA controlled area and those questions & answers are what the HOA follows.

Mine is a single family, detached condominium which has no shared walls, but lots of shared ground space.

My charger is inside the garage and can't be seen from the outside unless I am charging once a week outside the garage.

 

[dtbaker61]

Last year I had a NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed by a licensed electrician who is very skilled.

I just got notice from my HOA for a cease and desist letter saying that I need to have a permit for the charger.

installation of additional circuits, conduit, outlets is *supposed* to be Permitted/inspected by local AHJ just about everywhere. regardless of whether the work is done inside, or outside. The reason is to verify that work is done to code and prevent house fires. If you had a lic. Electrician do the work, they put their license at risk by not obtaining a Permit/Inspection.... but you can fix it with a little followup.

you can usually apply for a Permit to do a home improvement as a homeowner, fill out the application, pay the fee, and then request an Inspection. You'll get a sticker and/or Inspection report you can then give to your HOA.

I don't think you need a 'Permit to Operate' a residential charger anywhere I am aware of if it is your property and you are not selling the energy as a business, so a cease and desist make no sense, but the HOA can probably request a courtesy copy of the Permit/inspection report to make sure it got done right.

 

[kdonnel]

Bob puts in a 240v charger outside his garage, and grounds it to the flagpole in his yard, that sits in a pool of water when it rains.

Mary, his neighbor, shares that pool of water because her lawn is lower than Bob's. Mary lets her dog, Muffy, into the yard and Muffy turns into a crispy critter.

Even in a single family unit, HOAs care about you doing stupid things that may affect your neighbors, or the common areas (i.e. the street by the charger you installed).

Anyone not checking with their city/town regarding permit requires before installing a level 2 charger is asking for a future problem IMO.

I imagine the laws associated with and powers available to an HOA vary greatly by state.

I am one of the rare people who both read the covenants and my MME manual.

I can assure you that my HOA has no authority to ensure that permits are pulled for any homeowner changes.

They in fact have no power when it comes to interior changes to the home. I did have to get approval to put in two windows when I finished the basement but they did not need to or want to know about any construction being done on the interior of my home.

The modifications committee though has broad powers to deny outside changes based on the design guidelines. It is clearly stated in the covenants that ANY changes (with a few exceptions for repainting the same color or preapproved deck and fence stain colors) to the outside of the home require prior approval. There are clearly stated timelines that must be followed by the HOA and if they do not, your request is approved by default. There are also clearly states repercussions should you proceed with construction without approval.

Nowhere in the covenants that cover my home does it mention EV charger placement but their placement on the exterior of a home would be covered by the Appearance Standards General clause.

It also clearly states that the HOA is not to be held responsible for any harm caused by approved changes. That disclaimer is in bold and all caps.

I find it amazing that you got 91% of homeowners to respond to a request for covenant changes. My HOA has been trying for almost 10 years to amend the covenants to remove some items homeowners find oppressive. For example you are in violation of the HOA if you park a car on the street or driveway if all the available garage bays are not in use by a parked car. Basketball goals are allowed on a temporary basis, they must be rolled out of view when not in use, but must have a clear backboard. If they are only out while in use why does the backboard matter, etc. There are 5 changes they want to make. Despite mailings and door to door visits they have been unable to even get 75% to vote, let alone all vote for the changes before they have to start over because the vote has taken longer than allowed by the covenants.

 

[RickMachE]

I find it amazing that you got 91% of homeowners to respond to a request for covenant changes. My HOA has been trying for almost 10 years to amend the covenants to remove some items homeowners find oppressive. For example you are in violation of the HOA if you park a car on the street or driveway if all the available garage bays are not in use by a parked car. Basketball goals are allowed on a temporary basis, they must be rolled out of view when not in use, but must have a clear backboard. If they are only out while in use why does the backboard matter, etc. There are 5 changes they want to make. Despite mailings and door to door visits they have been unable to even get 75% to vote, let alone all vote for the changes before they have to start over because the vote has taken longer than allowed by the covenants.

Sorry, we did NOT get 91% of homeowners to vote no, or even vote.

We got 73% to vote. 9.5% voted yes. 63.5% voted no. The remainder didn't vote, which is the same as "no".

A group of about 15% of the homeowners gathered and made an effort to contact neighbors to rally the vote against, and succeeded.

HOA rules are designed to NOT be changed, which is why many require a 2/3 vote to change them. Many allow boards to make rules (but not negate existing rules).

We don't allow onstreet parking overnight, PERIOD.

 

[bcaceres]

Certainly, you need to have all electrical work permitted by the city or county in which you live and it should be inspected during and/or after installation by a city or county inspector and approved before operation.

That said, my HOA dragged their feet on approving my solar panels. The bylaws said they had 30 days from when I submitted them to get back to me with an approval or denial -- however, clean energy laws in my state (federal?) prevented them from denying anyway, so my submitting the solar panels plans was more of a courtesy since they could not even influence placement of the panels since that is governed by optimizing efficiency. After 30 days they sent me a letter telling me that they would review my request at their next meeting which was 30 more days away. I told my contractor to begin work and sent the HOA a letter stating that their failure to reply with a ruling within 30 days constituted an approval by our bylaws and cited the relevant sections in the bylaws for them.

I don't know if EV chargers fall into the same protective laws as solar panels, but it might be worth looking up.

 

[Bonehead]

Is your HOA asking you to be compliant, or do they have a complaint?

 

[superdave80]

I just got notice from my HOA for a cease and desist letter saying that I need to have a permit for the charger. This is annoying to say the least. There is concern that the setup isn’t weatherproof or rated for the outdoors. How would you approach this? I’ve unplugged my charger and closed the receptacle housing box, will take pictures and send them. Any other ideas?

So, which is their issue? That the receptacle isn't installed properly? Or that you are using a charger? Because if the receptacle is up to code/HOA rules, then I doubt they have any say into WHAT gets plugged into it. I don't even know where/how you would get a permit for a plug in charger. Have them point out which (if any) HOA rule you are in violation of.

 

[Motomax]

If they used the word permit I am presuming your electrician did not pull permits. HOA's give approval they do not permit. If there is no permit and your house burns down the chances are your insurance company would walk away.

FYI, a signed off permit means absolutely nothing. If you read it you’ll see a statement to the fact that the inspector makes zero guarantees that the installation is correct and up to code. Makes me wonder why I have to pay $300 for an EV outlet permit…

Anyone can look up issued permits online, the HOA is probably just being nosy. I can’t stand HOA Karena and Kens. Most of what they enforce are all city codes anyways. It’s a complete waste of money and in my area it can be quite the monthly fee as well.

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