In Snow - RWD with Snow tires or AWD w stock all seasons?

[RedDragon]

All,

I just wanted to survey the crowd here. I was debating someone on this topic yesterday.

In the snow would RWD with snow/winter tires be just as good, better, or worse as AWD w the MME stock all season tires? (im not trying to compare w AWD with snow tires, as that would clearly be the best).

Just curious from other snow dwellers out there - thanks!

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[tuminatr]

All,

I just wanted to survey the crowd here. I was debating someone on this topic yesterday.

In the snow would RWD with snow/winter tires be just as good, better, or worse as AWD w the MME stock all season tires? (im not trying to compare w AWD with snow tires, as that would clearly be the best).

Just curious from other snow dwellers out there - thanks!

Based on experience the AWD would actually outperform the RWD with winter tires.

I will try to dig out some road testing I had comparing an AWD with all-season vs an FWD with winters and in most categories the AWD outperformed, The place where winter on an FWD had a clear advantage was breaking but cornering was almost equal. Acceleration the AWD was a clear winner even with all season.

 

[tuminatr]

Not the test I have seen before but you will get the point.

I encourage you to watch when you do keep in mind that the model 3 rear motor makes around 283 hp the front motor makes 197HP. Both motors together around 450hp. Some of the lap time differences are bound to be because of more power. Thus this is not a true test of FWD VS RWD VSAWD.

Watch Tesla Model 3 In Snow: FWD Vs RWD Vs AWD Comparison (insideevs.com)

 

[Zeromarine]

The 2wd would be better with winters. As the winters will be about 100 times better stopping and turning as awd does nothing in these regards. All season tires are garbage in a real winter.

 

[Tom L]

All,

I just wanted to survey the crowd here. I was debating someone on this topic yesterday.

In the snow would RWD with snow/winter tires be just as good, better, or worse as AWD w the MME stock all season tires? (im not trying to compare w AWD with snow tires, as that would clearly be the best).

Just curious from other snow dwellers out there - thanks!

I have studied this issue ad nauseam before I ordered a MME and have 50 years experience living and driving in high snow areas. People tend to confuse this issue by generalizing from experience with RWD in ICE cars, which is irrelevant because of the weight differential and distribution in EVs.
After much thought, I decided to order RWD here in Wisconsin because the range advantage is useful year round and MME owners say it drives OK in snow under 4" with OEM tires.

To answer your questions directly, AWD w/o winter tires would give you some advantage with traction on take-off and going up hills--but RWD with winter tires would give you an advantage for steering and braking in snow. Though some will argue this assertion, AWD (which is not 4WD) helps mostly with traction and not turning and braking in snow.

As far as traction on the RWD with winter tires compared to the AWD with OEM tires, I think it is pretty close with some advantage to AWD. Obviously, I didn't think it is enough of an advantage to order AWD. Of course, if one can afford it the best option would be AWD with winter tires but the additional $4000 was not affordable for me.

 

[phidauex]

In terms of safety, it would be the RWD w/ winter tires. As the old saying goes "all wheel drive doesn't mean all wheel stop". People get hurt while trying to stop, and AWD is completely useless during stopping - the only thing helping you there is tires.

There are a few small cases like getting out of a parking lot dip where AWD w/ all seasons might pull itself out while the RWD flounders, but that isn't how accidents happen.

I drove an AWD WRX w/ limited slips along side a FWD Prius for years, and while we put winter tires on both, sometimes one would get them installed before the other did, and the FWD Prius with good winter tires was always a better bet than the AWD Subaru with the normal all-seasons.

 

[kltye]

I have the Vredestein Quatrac 5 on my RWD ER. I've gotten stuck a couple times, but where the road dipped. But "stuck" here meant that traction control kicked in to the point of not allowing any tires to spin. I turned that off, let the tires slip a little, but managed to get out pretty easily.

As far as straight up driving on snow, it's been a little tail-happy, but only a small amount until traction/stability control kicks in. Never had an issue with stopping though.

The stock tires were garbage for me; it would slip even on slightly wet roads.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Tires are your answer. True winter tires and RWD will steer and brake better than all-seasons on AWD. Tire Rack has done this testing and it’s really not that close.

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=116

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=122

 

[tuminatr]

I have the Vredestein Quatrac 5 on my RWD ER. I've gotten stuck a couple times, but where the road dipped. But "stuck" here meant that traction control kicked in to the point of not allowing any tires to spin. I turned that off, let the tires slip a little, but managed to get out pretty easily.

As far as straight up driving on snow, it's been a little tail-happy, but only a small amount until traction/stability control kicks in. Never had an issue with stopping though.

The stock tires were garbage for me; it would slip even on slightly wet roads.

I completely agree with my old car a FWD Fusion PHEV I ran winters and I got it stuck quite a few times. I would turn off the TC and get out of the rut or snowdrift. With AWD and those same Quatrac 5 tires, I went out in the 20" of the snow we got this season and I did not even see the TC light up.

One other correction is AWD in the MME for 2022 is a $2700 option. What are a good set of winter tires and rims gonna cost you? Probably about the same amount of money. Out of curiosity, I went on TR and a wheel tire package with 18" wheels starts at $2050

If you are really on a budget get an all-weather (Quatrac, Chross Climate, Weathergrip, Weatherready, WRG4, Celsius) tire drive on them all year round.

I think these debates miss the point because the real truth is you are better off with AWD and winter tires

 

[Badger_Prof]

The 2wd would be better with winters. As the winters will be about 100 times better stopping and turning as awd does nothing in these regards. All season tires are garbage in a real winter.

I think you may need to revisit your beliefs about turning with AWD in the snow. Have you actually driven both in the snow? I have. The RWD actually does nicely in the snow. However, the AWD outperforms for the obvious reasons. Just give it a try. I love the way the front drive can pull me on track if I slide the rears. Limits to my experience: I have only driven in snow between one inch and seven inches in depth. Perhaps it is different in greater depths? btw, happy birthday to my car—today is its one year birthday. I have now had the opportunity to drive it February—February. Loving it!

 

[Zeromarine]

I think you may need to revisit your beliefs about turning with AWD in the snow. Have you actually driven both in the snow? I have. The RWD actually does nicely in the snow. However, the AWD outperforms for the obvious reasons. Just give it a try. I love the way the front drive can pull me on track if I slide the rears. Limits to my experience: I have only driven in snow between one inch and seven inches in depth. Perhaps it is different in greater depths? btw, happy birthday to my car—today is its one year birthday. I have now had the opportunity to drive it February—February. Loving it!

Yes yes I have living in the Canadian prairies I have had my fill of snow for the past 25 years of driving ?

 

[AKgrampy]

I have lived in Alaska for 39 of my 65 years and we have icy and snowy roads for six months of the year. My experience is AWD and 4 WD work better than RWD no matter what tire you chose except maybe when running studded. FWD is also way better than RWD but of course that is not an option. The issue, as someone else mentioned, is 4WD and AWD give a driver a false sense of security as they allow one to get moving faster but stopping is the same and drivers tend to forget that fact when the snow flys late September -early October. No scientific fact here - just my experience driving Caravan, Datsun, Ford F-150, Explorer, Edge, Aspire, Escape, Focus, Fusion and Taurus.

 

[P. T. Magoo]

It will likely be next winter before I get my MME, but I ordered RWD with the big battery, and plan to purchase an extra set of wheels and good snow tires.

I've daily-driven a series of overpowered, stick-shift ICE Mustangs, and have used snow tires and put extra weight on the floorboards just in front of the rear seats in the winter and never once gotten stuck. Not once. The cars have been surprisingly well-behaved set up that way, and I actually like the early feedback when accelerating, about how the car will decelerate and turn. With "all-season" tires, those same cars were basically 300 HP toboggans.

I figure the RWD MME will have pretty good front to rear weight distribution even without weights on the rear floorboards, which should be a plus. Maybe I can use those weights to work out or something?

Plus, I ran the numbers in my head and realized I could buy an extra set of wheels and tires for way less than the AWD option. I figure I can use
the left over money for the beers I'll consume twice a year while the car's up on the QuickJack and I'm doing my ritual tire swap.

 

[Budman]

I have studied this issue ad nauseam before I ordered a MME and have 50 years experience living and driving in high snow areas. People tend to confuse this issue by generalizing from experience with RWD in ICE cars, which is irrelevant because of the weight differential and distribution in EVs.
After much thought, I decided to order RWD here in Wisconsin because the range advantage is useful year round and MME owners say it drives OK in snow under 4" with OEM tires.

To answer your questions directly, AWD w/o winter tires would give you some advantage with traction on take-off and going up hills--but RWD with winter tires would give you an advantage for steering and braking in snow. Though some will argue this assertion, AWD (which is not 4WD) helps mostly with traction and not turning and braking in snow.

As far as traction on the RWD with winter tires compared to the AWD with OEM tires, I think it is pretty close with some advantage to AWD. Obviously, I didn't think it is enough of an advantage to order AWD. Of course, if one can afford it the best option would be AWD with winter tires but the additional $4000 was not affordable for me.

I came to the same conclusion as a MN driver with 40+ winters under my belt. Went RWD for the 10% better range and $4000 cost savings. Past experiences with RWD ICE cars won't transfer well to EV's with much more weight on the back axle. Snow tires make a huge difference.

EDIT: $2700 cost saving for RWD vs AWD.

 

[tuminatr]

I came to the same conclusion as a MN driver with 40+ winters under my belt. Went RWD for the 10% better range and $4000 cost savings. Past experiences with RWD ICE cars won't transfer well to EV's with much more weight on the back axle. Snow tires make a huge difference.

In the 2022 models AWD is $2700 according to Tire Rack a it's about $2050 for winter tires and a set of wheels. So not much savings.

If range is a concern your best bet is get a set of 18" CR1 wheels and LRR tires. Look at the rating of the CR1 RWD range 314 miles AWD range 312. I have a set of CR1 wheels for my premium and can tell you it was a huge increase in range.

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