Mach-E vs Model Y range tests [by EVDave]

[timbop]

I have a 2020 Long Range All Wheel Drive Model Y with 19" Gemini Wheels which has a 74 kWh battery (2021 has 82 kWh).

Here's some range tests I've done in the past for my podcast I'll toss into this thread.

Background Details:
1. 53 mile route between my house in Saint Peters, MO and Warrenton MO, 48.6 of those miles on I-70 West
2. Winds always < 10 mph to minimize variance between tests caused by wind
3. Basic Autopilot engaged @ 70 MPH on I-70, on-demand lane changes when necessary to maintain speed and consistency
4. No "chill mode", normal acceleration, Normal regen
5. Roads always dry (wet roads affect range too!)
6. Tires at 42 PSI (recommended inflation for the vehicle)
7. Started with a cold battery (no preconditioning) unless noted below

Outside Temp	Wheel Size	Wheel Covers On?	Interior Temp (HVAC)	wh/mi	MPGe	Miles per kWh	Estimated Range	EPA highway: 114 MPGe - 296 Wh/mi - 251 Miles
75F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	Yes (adds 6.5% range)	70	260	129.6	3.8	281	Better than EPA
75F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	No	70	278	121.2	3.6	266	Better than EPA
36F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	Yes	75 (cause heat pump to operate)	294	114.6	3.4	252	Better than EPA
36F	19" Gemini Winter Tires (Pirelli Sottozero 3)	Yes	75	310 (5% range drop due to winter tires)	108.7	3.2	237	Worse than EPA
28F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	Yes	75 (cause heat pump to operate)	326	103.4	3.1	229	Worse than EPA
0F (Battery pre-conditioned via Tesla app to improve range and charging)	19" Gemini Winter Tires (Pirelli Sottozero 3)	Yes	72 (cause heat pump to operate)	483	69.8	2	148	Much Worse than EPA

You'll notice I reference the EPA highway rating specifically when showing the results. Some may think I'm gaming the numbers to make the Model Y look better. I think it's more accurate. I don't expect to EVER get 316 out of my car. It's not realistic.

I'm looking forward to getting a Mach-E to test soon along with a VW ID4 among others under similar conditions for comparison.

I think you're mistaken in your math - there is only 1 EPA test for a 2020 long range model Y (see below), and it lists the EPA range as 316 miles. The MPGe and kwh/100 mi numbers are measured from the grid and include overhead from charging (typically 15% loss) - not from the battery to the wheels. So, in your chart above I don't know where the 251 mi EPA comes from? Your best test is 75 miles SHORT of EPA; none exceed the EPA numbers

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[timbop]

Adding the Mach E to the graphic, doing your math the Mach E ER AWD would get an EPA of 237 miles, which is definitely incorrect

 

[littlD]

Adding the Mach E to the graphic, doing your math the Mach E ER AWD would get an EPA of 237 miles, which is definitely incorrect

Great questions.

251 came from 114 MPGe (EPA highway portion of the overall rating), converted to 296 wh/mi, converted to miles per kWh (3.4) times 74 kWh battery.

I think this gets to the heart of where I think we miss what the EPA rating is telling us. When I do a test that is 91.6% highway miles (48.6 out of 53), I'm choosing to compare against the highway EPA rating alone instead of using the combined city/highway rating. The combined rating assumes 50% are city miles, 50% are highway.

Of course I agree with you that comparing against the combined EPA rating that almost everyone references, none of my tests meet or exceed EPA and never will under any real-world conditions.

Maybe a new route that would be 50% city driving and 50% Highway driving? That would then match the driving pattern the combined EPA rating expects.

That's actually a great idea @timbop! Food for thought! And I'll correct the column to say specifically I'm comparing against the highway rating alone to remove confusion.

 

[pt19713]

Great questions.

251 came from 114 MPGe (EPA highway portion of the overall rating), converted to 296 wh/mi, converted to miles per kWh (3.4) times 74 kWh battery.

I think this gets to the heart of where I think we miss what the EPA rating is telling us. When I do a test that is 91.6% highway miles (48.6 out of 53), I'm choosing to compare against the highway EPA rating alone instead of using the combined city/highway rating. The combined rating assumes 50% are city miles, 50% are highway.

Of course I agree with you that comparing against the combined EPA rating that almost everyone references, none of my tests meet or exceed EPA and never will under any real-world conditions.

Maybe a new route that would be 50% city driving and 50% Highway driving? That would then match the driving pattern the combined EPA rating expects.

That's actually a great idea @timbop! Food for thought! And I'll correct the column to say specifically I'm comparing against the highway rating alone to remove confusion.

I have a few drives that are about 70% highway, 30% city. The first one attached, with 237 wh/mi, is at 65-70 mph for the highway, 45-55mph for the urban. Seat warmer on, no hvac.

The second one attached is 60% urban, 40% highway. Urban speeds at 60 mph, highway at 70 mph. AC on fan speed 1. This was from this morning, just got home. Temps 52F, sunny, low wind.

I typically don't have issues getting close or beating EPA rating unless I'm doing 75-80 mph, or temps fall below 45F. But, even in winter, my efficiency is between 260-290 wh/mi.

Edit: forgot to mention, 2020 LR Model Y AWD with acceleration boost, factory 19" Gemini covers with factory 255/45/19 Continental ProContact RX at 42 psi cold.

 

[timbop]

251 came from 114 MPGe (EPA highway portion of the overall rating), converted to 296 wh/mi, converted to miles per kWh (3.4) times 74 kWh battery.

Right, but that's what I tried to point out before: the MPGe and kwh/100 miles numbers are designed for people to figure out how much they'll have to pay the utility company to drive their car X miles. The kwh/100mi number and MPGe are directly related: 33.7 kwh per gal of gas divided by 28 kwh/100 mi times 100 gives you the MPGe of 120 (the numbers are rounded off so not exactly what they report). Some of that energy generates waste heat that doesn't actually make it into the battery - an analogy is that some always "spills" while charging, so you have to actually draw more from the grid than the battery actually holds. Since you still have to pay for that spill the EPA includes that cost in the MPGe number. Therefore, since MPGe includes energy that did not make it into the battery, using the MPGe number to compute driving range is invalid because it includes energy lost to waste heat from charging which has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency while driving.

The "combined" number for MPGe is a roughly even mix of highway and city - I think it's 45/55 but I don't remember for sure.

 

[littlD]

Right, but that's what I tried to point out before: the MPGe and kwh/100 miles numbers are designed for people to figure out how much they'll have to pay the utility company to drive their car X miles. The kwh/100mi number and MPGe are directly related: 33.7 kwh per gal of gas divided by 28 kwh/100 mi times 100 gives you the MPGe of 120 (the numbers are rounded off so not exactly what they report). Some of that energy generates waste heat that doesn't actually make it into the battery - an analogy is that some always "spills" while charging, so you have to actually draw more from the grid than the battery actually holds. Since you still have to pay for that spill the EPA includes that cost in the MPGe number. Therefore, using the MPGe number to compute driving range is invalid because it includes energy lost to waste heat from charging which has absolutely nothing to do with efficiency while driving.

The "combined" number for MPGe is a roughly even mix of highway and city - I think it's 45/55 but I don't remember for sure.

Good point concerning the pitfalls of MPGe and EPAs use of it.

I confirmed the combined number is 50/50
Example: 100 + 86 / 2 = 93

 

[timbop]

Good point concerning the pitfalls of MPGe and EPAs use of it.

Yeah I was totally stumped trying to figure out why the range and MPGe didn't correlate like I thought they should, but someone else on here explained it to me. At the time I was leaning toward a model 3 so I was watching lots of videos of SR+ m3's so I could figure out if it would have enough range for my commute in winter. I could find videos showing the wh/mi numbers but I couldn't find a definitive number for the available size of the m3 SR+ battery. I figured I would just reverse the EPA numbers to get the actual battery size available and it kept coming out bigger than I knew the actual battery to be.

 

[silverelan]

I have a 2020 Long Range All Wheel Drive Model Y with 19" Gemini Wheels which has a 74 kWh battery (2021 has 82 kWh).

Here's some range tests I've done in the past for my podcast I'll toss into this thread.

Background Details:
1. 53 mile route between my house in Saint Peters, MO and Warrenton MO, 48.6 of those miles on I-70 West
2. Winds always < 10 mph to minimize variance between tests caused by wind
3. Basic Autopilot engaged @ 70 MPH on I-70, on-demand lane changes when necessary to maintain speed and consistency
4. No "chill mode", normal acceleration, Normal regen
5. Roads always dry (wet roads affect range too!)
6. Tires at 42 PSI (recommended inflation for the vehicle)
7. Started with a cold battery (no preconditioning) unless noted below

Outside Temp	Wheel Size	Wheel Covers On?	Interior Temp (HVAC)	wh/mi	MPGe	Miles per kWh	Estimated Range	EPA highway: 114 MPGe - 296 Wh/mi - 251 Miles
75F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	Yes (adds 6.5% range)	70	260	129.6	3.8	281	Better than EPA Highway Rating
75F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	No	70	278	121.2	3.6	266	Better than EPA Highway Rating
36F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	Yes	75 (cause heat pump to operate)	294	114.6	3.4	252	Better than EPA Highway Rating
36F	19" Gemini Winter Tires (Pirelli Sottozero 3)	Yes	75	310 (5% range drop due to winter tires)	108.7	3.2	237	Worse than EPA EPA Highway Rating
28F	19" Gemini All Season Tires	Yes	75 (cause heat pump to operate)	326	103.4	3.1	229	Worse than EPA EPA Highway Rating
0F (Battery pre-conditioned via Tesla app to improve range and charging)	19" Gemini Winter Tires (Pirelli Sottozero 3)	Yes	72 (cause heat pump to operate)	483	69.8	2	148	Much Worse than EPA EPA Highway Rating

You'll notice I reference the EPA highway rating specifically when showing the results. Some may think I'm gaming the numbers to make the Model Y look better. I think it's more accurate. I don't expect to EVER get 316 out of my car. It's not realistic.

I'm looking forward to getting a Mach-E to test soon along with a VW ID4 among others under similar conditions for comparison.

Out of curiosity, what's your podcast?

 

[littlD]

Out of curiosity, what's your podcast?

It's listed in my signature, but here you go

Life with Middie Podcast

Of course also available on TuneIn, Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, etc

 

[silverelan]

It's listed in my signature, but here you go

Life with Middie Podcast

Of course also available on TuneIn, Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, etc

Thanks, I'll check it out!

 

[Electric Fusion]

We all know EPA and MPGe is all BS so why even talk about them?
Look at Tesla EPA numbers vs MME and look at real world range both slow and fast and the MME is better 11-15% no question but yet has a lower EPA numbers than the MY

Using the same game Tesla plays with EPA .... the MME 4X would have been given 335 miles EPA instead of 270 .. but what’s the point when real world you are only going to get 230-280 depending on condition and speed..

A totally new independent testing system is needed with no Manufacture input! with all test done identically! close to real world as possible! This means indicated percentage range should only be used 100-0% not until dead .. real world no one drive their car until dead .. testing until dead is BS!

 

[TheVirtualTim]

One thing that should be pointed out regarding driving a car after it reports 0% (using up your reserve) is that it is harmful to the overall life of the battery.

This is why I cringe a little anytime I see someone "review" range without mentioning the harmful side-effects of doing this. The reason the battery packs have a reserve is to try to protect them from the harm of charging to completely full or completely empty.

 

[MachE1977]

We all know EPA and MPGe is all BS so why even talk about them?
Look at Tesla EPA numbers vs MME and look at real world range both slow and fast and the MME is better 11-15% no question but yet has a lower EPA numbers than the MY

Using the same game Tesla plays with EPA .... the MME 4X would have been given 335 miles EPA instead of 270 .. but what’s the point when real world you are only going to get 230-280 depending on condition and speed..

A totally new independent testing system is needed with no Manufacture input! with all test done identically! close to real world as possible! This means indicated percentage range should only be used 100-0% not until dead .. real world no one drive their car until dead .. testing until dead is BS!

I agree. This should include real world charging times and capabilities, instead of people manipulating to make manufacturers look good.

 

[DMIINC]

I agree. This should include real world charging times and capabilities, instead of people manipulating to make manufacturers look good.

Would like to see a range test where total amount of energy used is shown. Measured consumption from wall charger to charge a battery. After all we do pay for total amount used be it on DCFC or wall charger in your garage. That would be better representation of efficiency.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Thanks for sharing however his test was not done fair .. the MME did 320 miles from 100 to 0 .. he did not try to drive the MME below 0 and if you look at Edmon test you can .. so if you are doing a 100 to 0 indicated test .. then the moment 0% is shown the test should stop ..

So base on his test the MME Indicated 100 to 0% = 318. + 3 remaining
Model Y indicated 100 to 0% = 280 + 0 remaining...

the key part of this test is indicated miles from 100 to 0% .. it was not a test from 100% to dead ..

100% to 0% indicated range Test
MME 56mph = 318 + 3 miles indicated
MY 56mph = 280 + 0 miles indicated

MME 75mph = 231 + 3 miles indicated* 1%? (video did not show 0%)
MY 75mph = 222 + 0 miles indicated

Other than that good test ..

Good summary. Much more valuable read than watching his videos. They're as exciting as watching paint dry.

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