Mike Levine on ADM

[RickMachE]

Yep, my dealer had to lower their doc fees, from I think $175, to $100. Finance guy even mentioned to me, I suspect because he knew that I was educated on how x-plan worked. Had I not known he would have probably told me it was because they were just wonderful

My mother bought a vehicle out of state (in her state), via my son's A-Plan, which limits paperwork fees to $75. Dealer never did a plan sale before, so they had to redo the paperwork several times including reducing their paperwork fee.

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[DevSecOps]

I just have to jump in here, after reading through this thread. For you to state a 99.984% chance that they'll be fine is simply outrageous. From where does the ability to project to 3 decimal places in accuracy come from? Where is your equation?

#ThisForumIsFullOfGeeks ? ?

Approximately 60k MMEs ordered. Can you point out more than 10 legitimate examples of dealers adjusting ADM on custom orders? If not, 10 out of 60k is .016% problematic leaving 99.984% non problematic. Even if you want to claim there's 1000 people with ADM added after a custom order that's still only a 1.6% chance.

This forum has a lot of geeks, and I'm proud to be one. It, however, has far more hyperbole and fear mongering, which I refuse to take part in. Facts and even educated guesses are more powerful than the BS a lot of people spew.

I apologize if math bothers you.

 

[RickMachE]

Approximately 60k MMEs ordered. Can you point out more than 10 legitimate examples of dealers adjusting ADM on custom orders? If not, 10 out of 60k is .016% problematic leaving 99.984% non problematic. Even if you want to claim there's 1000 people with ADM added after a custom order that's still only a 1.6% chance.

This forum has a lot of geeks, and I'm proud to be one. It however has far more hyperbole and fear mongering, which I refuse to take part in. Facts and even educated guesses are more powerful than the BS a lot of people spew.

I apologize if math bothers you.

Whoa there, Linus Torvalds. I may not be an engineer, nor play one on a forum, but I did watch every season of Big Bang Theory and your math is totally fubar. ?

You can't combine 10 cases of problems posted on this forum with 60,000 orders . Assuming that every forum member ordered a Mach-E, the correct math would be 10 / 8,800, the approximate number of forum members. Of course you'd need to remove vendors and those that haven't had delivery from the denominator, and increase the numerator by those that have had issues but haven't posted about them. Using Newton's Figures of Absurdity Theory, let's assume 60% have received a vehicle, so the math would be 10 / (8,800*.6) = 0.189%, or near 12 times higher than your calculated rate.

Of course Fuglestein's Theorem says that when you combine inaccuracy with inaccuracy, you should only go to 1 digit, so a rate of 0.2% would be acceptable.

I would draw a Venn diagram, but I don't have access to AutoCAD.

 

[RMoore]

Approximately 60k MMEs ordered. Can you point out more than 10 legitimate examples of dealers adjusting ADM on custom orders? If not, 10 out of 60k is .016% problematic leaving 99.984% non problematic. Even if you want to claim there's 1000 people with ADM added after a custom order that's still only a 1.6% chance.

This forum has a lot of geeks, and I'm proud to be one. It however has far more hyperbole and fear mongering, which I refuse to take part in. Facts and even educated guesses are more powerful than the BS a lot of people spew.

I apologize if math bothers you.

A reasonable back of the envelope calculation I think. That said, I hate to break it to you but I believe 10 out of 60K would be more properly written as .017% if you were to round up rather than truncate (since it's .00016 2/3, or .0001666666 ad infinitum--not sure how to write a line over the 6 indicating that).
-A fellow geek

 

[DevSecOps]

Woah there, Linus Torvalds. I may not be an engineer, nor play one on a forum, but I did watch every season of Big Bang Theory and your math is totally fubar. ?

You can't combine 10 cases of problems posted on this forum with 60,000 orders . Assuming that every forum member ordered a Mach-E, the correct math would be 10 / 8,800, the approximate number of forum members. Of course you'd need to remove vendors and those that haven't had delivery from the denominator, and increase the numerator by those that have had issues but haven't posted about them. Using Newton's Figures of Absurdity Theory, let's assume 60% have received a vehicle, so the math would be 10 / (8,800*.6) = 0.189%, or near 12 times higher than your calculated rate.

Of course Fuglestein's Theorem says that when you combine inaccuracy with inaccuracy, you should only go to 1 digit, so a rate of 0.2% would be acceptable.

I would draw a Venn diagram, but I don't have access to AutoCAD.

https://gdb.voanews.com/C5B4ADE4-25C3-4FF3-97C6-C7A2404A4D5A_cx0_cy16_cw79_w1080_h608_s.jpg

Your numbers are no more correct than mine. Users of this forum have nothing to do with orders of MMEs. While there could be more people who have issues, I'm not going to assume the worst because that's not what I do.

Keep fear mongering and ignore me while you're at it

 

[RickMachE]

 

[MellowJohnny]

X-Plan is a Ford discount plan that you can be eligible for in many ways.

1) A Ford employee gives you a PIN. Most often they have the ability to give out 4 per calendar year.

2) You belong to one of the thousands of organizations that have this discount setup with Ford. Check with your HR department. Here's a list that is likely inaccurate - https://www.oxmoorflm.com/ford-a-x-z-plans/x-plan-partner-companies/

3) Join a club or organization that offers this benefit. Experimental Aircraft Association, Mustang Club of America, a major university's alumni association. Wait 90 days and you're all set.

4) Buy 100 shares of Ford stock and hold them for 6 months or longer.

X-Plan for MOST vehicles is 99.6% of invoice, plus $275 administrative fee, with max of $100 paperwork fee. For the Mach-E, invoice and MSRP are the same. The X-Plan price is about $800 or so below the MSRP / Invoice. My 2021 on order that became a 2022 has an MSRP of $57,395, with an X-Plan price of $56,531, or $864 lower.

It baffles me how so many people come to a forum like this, read about X-Plan and how they'll save money, then take no steps to get it. Most dealers will honor X-Plan on ordered vehicles. Many will not honor it on in-stock Mach-Es at this point. There is literally no reason to not use this to save ~$800, unless you like giving away money.

Note - the dealer gets money from Ford for each X-Plan sale, they are NOT "losing out" if you use it. However, they are restricted to max of $100 for paperwork, and many gouge the customer mightily charging $499, or even $799.



While I agree that you don't need to give your PIN to them ahead of time, they cannot use it for another sale. Ford audits every X-Plan sale, and PINs are unique. In addition, there are no "savings" to pocket for the dealer, since the customer gets a lower price, has to sign forms for the X-Plan sale, etc.

Super super helpful - thanks for that! I had never heard of it. Now let's see if my dealer will honour it "post-sale" as I've signed paperwork but to not have a VIN yet.

*EDIT*: Just heard back from the dealer: "...nor is Ford accepting the use of A/X/Z/D-Plan pin numbers on this vehicle."

Any way to call BS on this? Contact Ford Canada? He did say "Ford" and not "our dealership"

 

[Jppumper]

I don't need to say more. Read it for yourself:

This would also "likely" apply to online orders where it lists ADM if it's going to be applied. That order sheet that you get should be sufficient since you are leaving a deposit as an agreement to the contract. I'm not an attorney but I would assume that's a digital agreement.

The key takeaway... If they want ADM that is too high for you go elsewhere. If the order had no ADM, and they attempt to add it later, this implies that they (he) will help.

We agreed on a price on March 25th, 2021, put down a 1k deposit. Paid what was agreed to in November 2021.

 

[CapitolE]

Approximately 60k MMEs ordered. Can you point out more than 10 legitimate examples of dealers adjusting ADM on custom orders? If not, 10 out of 60k is .016% problematic leaving 99.984% non problematic. Even if you want to claim there's 1000 people with ADM added after a custom order that's still only a 1.6% chance.

This forum has a lot of geeks, and I'm proud to be one. It, however, has far more hyperbole and fear mongering, which I refuse to take part in. Facts and even educated guesses are more powerful than the BS a lot of people spew.

I apologize if math bothers you.

We’ll I’ve got one. Guess that makes 11. I’ve got email documentation of x-plan and an accepted order showing no ADM. Despite folks singing the praises of @mrlevine and @Ford Motor Company, they’ve gone silent for me. Steer clear of Lindsay ford of Wheaton if you don’t want to be #12.

 

[DevSecOps]

We’ll I’ve got one. Guess that makes 11. I’ve got email documentation of x-plan and an accepted order showing no ADM. Despite folks singing the praises of @mrlevine and @Ford Motor Company, they’ve gone silent for me. Steer clear of Lindsay ford of Wheaton if you don’t want to be #12.

What does your online order show? Does it have the ADM listed there? If it doesn't then I would contact an attorney, you gotta have a friend or someone being that you're near DC, that can just write a letter to the dealership threatening legal action if the contract isn't honored. We discussed in posts 27-28 how a deposit is consideration to a contract.

 

[CapitolE]

What does your online order show? Does it have the ADM listed there? If it doesn't then I would contact an attorney, you gotta have a friend or someone being that you're near DC, that can just write a letter to the dealership threatening legal action if the contract isn't honored. We discussed in posts 27-28 how a deposit is consideration to a contract.

I’m a lawyer. I know about consideration. Online order shows no ADM. I have documentation on that and the x-plan price commitment by the salesman. I’ve drafted a complaint to the Maryland MVA, which has jursidiction here, and I’m going to file tomorrow.

 

[DevSecOps]

I’m a lawyer. I know about consideration. Online order shows no ADM. I have documentation on that and the x-plan price commitment by the salesman. I’ve drafted a complaint to the Maryland MVA, which has jursidiction here, and I’m going to file tomorrow.

Well then go get um champ! Let us know how it goes. I'm curious.

 

[CapitolE]

Well then go get um champ! Let us know how it goes. I'm curious.

Thanks! We shall see.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

We’ll I’ve got one. Guess that makes 11. I’ve got email documentation of x-plan and an accepted order showing no ADM. Despite folks singing the praises of @mrlevine and @Ford Motor Company, they’ve gone silent for me. Steer clear of Lindsay ford of Wheaton if you don’t want to be #12.

Out of curiosity, how did this one happen? Did the price get raised after putting in the order, some time after, or on the date of delivery? And how did they explain away what they had emailed you?

I understand if you can't give some (or all) details for legal reasons.

 

[RickMachE]

Super super helpful - thanks for that! I had never heard of it. Now let's see if my dealer will honour it "post-sale" as I've signed paperwork but to not have a VIN yet.

*EDIT*: Just heard back from the dealer: "...nor is Ford accepting the use of A/X/Z/D-Plan pin numbers on this vehicle."

Any way to call BS on this? Contact Ford Canada? He did say "Ford" and not "our dealership"

First, since you have a purchase agreement, is the dealer refusing to honor the price agreed to?

Second, you're in Canada. No idea what Ford Canada is doing, but in the US it's BS.

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