Tesla Announces Opening up of NACS (Tesla Plug) Charging Standard

[ARK]

This, exactly. And here‘s Aptera validating the loophole.

This angle makes the most sense to me, that they are trying to get government money, otherwise, it seems clear at this point that the ship has sailed on making the Tesla connector the standard - too many manufacturers designing cars and businesses installing chargers have had no choice but to invest in CCS to reverse course now.

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[Electric Goat]

Sounds like a good way to get shot.

Do tesla owners even know how to use a gun?


Edit: jk... I don't recommend f'ing around to find out.

 

[silverelan]

Afaik, the announcement and specifications documents on the Tesla plug only dealt with its physical form and function. I don’t read anything that says Tesla is making it an open patent or overrides the old Tesla offer to use their tech if they can use yours.

 

[Mirak]

I think this is a little too late.. Should have been done before others jumped into the EV market. I agree that it's a much better design, but this pushes the design changes onto his competitors, why would they?

Exactly. Even assuming that incorporating an “NACS” port would permit access to the Supercharger network, that isn’t enough of a benefit for every other major automaker to forfeit their trump card over Tesla: CCS.

CCS may not be as good as NACS but it doesn’t matter. The consolidation of Tesla’s competitors behind CCS, coupled with billions of tax dollars to expand the CCS network, put Tesla at a serious competitive disadvantage. The superior coverage of the Supercharger network is soon to be no more. Soon it will be prospective Tesla buyers who have think twice about DCFC availability.

It’s not surprising that Tesla is now freely distributing its IP - this IP has rapidly reducing value so why not throw a Hail Mary? But it won’t work. CCS is here to stay, and it’s only a matter of time before Tesla gives up the ghost and sells Supercharger access to the victors… via incorporating CCS plugs. Not a chance in hell everybody else switches to NACS ports.

 

[kindofblue]

Exactly. Even assuming that incorporating an “NACS” port would permit access to the Supercharger network, that isn’t enough of a benefit for every other major automaker to forfeit their trump card over Tesla: CCS.

CCS may not be as good as NACS but it doesn’t matter. The consolidation of Tesla’s competitors behind CCS, coupled with billions of tax dollars to expand the CCS network, put Tesla at a serious competitive disadvantage. The superior coverage of the Supercharger network is soon to be no more. Soon it will be prospective Tesla buyers who have think twice about DCFC availability.

It’s not surprising that Tesla is now freely distributing its IP - this IP has rapidly reducing value so why not throw a Hail Mary? But it won’t work. CCS is here to stay, and it’s only a matter of time before Tesla gives up the ghost and sells Supercharger access to the victors… via incorporating CCS plugs. Not a chance in hell everybody else switches to NACS ports.

Tesla is the beta max in the VHS video wars.

 

[Unproven Jaybird]

Unfortunately, 5 years too late. That's bad. Tesla plug is much better than CCS. Like Apple port is a way better design than usb-c. But CCS already took the momentum, it will be very hard to compete.

 

[SWO]

No, the documents posted are the physical standard only (the hardware). The software communication and authorization for Supercharging remain proprietary for the Tesla connector. Tesla will not allow a supercharger>CCS dongle on its network for safety reasons. The dongle would not be able to get past the VIN-based encryption Tesla uses.

This is why no manufacturers are going to switch.

 

[flapjake314]

i have a questions i have never been able to figure out. CCS chargers feel like they weigh 10lbs and the cable is the diameter of a cheese steak.

yet supercharger cables look like 1 inch wide in diameter and are flapping around on a windy day. i think i could knock someone out with the CCS cable if i had the strength to swing it in the first place

i'm told it's because CCS is liquid cooled, high energy, blah blah blah. supercharger charges even faster, how are they defying physics?

 

[Mirak]

Does anyone know the percentage breakdown, by manufacturer, of EVs that are currently registered in the United States? I tried to look that up but all I could find were recent sales (Tesla still made up over 60% of all sales so far in 2022).

I’m guessing the percentage of total registered EVs would have to still top 80% in the US?

Anyway, if anyone knows where to find that data, I’d sure be interested to know.

Likewise, and this should be easier to ascertain, what is the percentage of Tesla versus CCS DCFC chargers in the US? Would appreciate sources.

I think both percentages are going to move steadily away from Tesla, but I honestly don’t know where they currently stand.

UPDATE: A handful of states do report the number of EV registrations by manufacturer. These reports are compiled here: State EV Registration Data – Atlas EV Hub

This is not nationwide, and the data doesn't include every state. But here are a few states with the most recent data:
- California, as of January 2021, 628k EVs, 41.6% Tesla
- Colorado, as of June 2022, 56,235 EVs, 42.4% Tesla
- Florida, as of July 2021, 90,165 EVs, 61.4% Tesla
- Texas, as of April 2022, 118k EVs, 59.4% Tesla

I am frankly shocked by these numbers. I expected the Tesla overall percentage to be somewhere around 75%. Based upon this sampling, the Tesla percentage could be closer to 50%. Now obviously Tesla remains the market leader - but has CCS already overtaken NACS?!

 

[ab13]

i have a questions i have never been able to figure out. CCS chargers feel like they weigh 10lbs and the cable is the diameter of a cheese steak.

yet supercharger cables look like 1 inch wide in diameter and are flapping around on a windy day. i think i could knock someone out with the CCS cable if i had the strength to swing it in the first place

i'm told it's because CCS is liquid cooled, high energy, blah blah blah. supercharger charges even faster, how are they defying physics?

After looking at the specs it seems the Tesla DC cable diameter is about 34 mm. While the CCS is about 35 mm. So not much difference. These are likely maximums, and maybe the Tesla cables that are thinner are not cooled? Tesla current rating is based on temperature, so you have reduced current at higher temperature.

It might also be that longer CCS cables are thicker, but I didn't see that spec anywhere yet.

 

[tuminatr]

Tesla is seeing the writing on the wall as CCS cars start to take over.

They should have opened the standard 5 years ago, but greedy Elon wanted to license it for fees. Guess he finally came around now that CCS will be built out as the national standard.

The States will end up like Europe, Tesla will need to adopt the actual standard.

Here is how you know you an EV geek, I took a picture of a Tesla charging in France showing they use the same charger as everyone else

 

[Jimrpa]

This is why no manufacturers are going to switch.

The problem is that, thanks to a stupid loophole, the world’s richest man is going to get a government handout for his electric car company

 

[flapjake314]

After looking at the specs it seems the Tesla DC cable diameter is about 34 mm. While the CCS is about 35 mm. So not much difference. These are likely maximums, and maybe the Tesla cables that are thinner are not cooled? Tesla current rating is based on temperature, so you have reduced current at higher temperature.

It might also be that longer CCS cables are thicker, but I didn't see that spec anywhere yet.

wow you're really making me question my reality here. sometimes the EA cable is so heavy i use two hands to insert it into the hole... i'm going to need to bring a ruler or hit the gym or something....

 

[Mirak]

The problem is that, thanks to a stupid loophole, the world’s richest man is going to get a government handout for his electric car company

Um... I think the government subsidy is wasteful and stupid in general, and it would be doubly stupid if Tesla becomes eligible based upon one other fringe manufacturer adopting NACS. But I don't know why it matters that Musk is the world's richest man. Something is either good policy or not. All these manufacturers are majority-owned and run by rich people.

 

[Mirak]

wow you're really making me question my reality here. sometimes the EA cable is so heavy i use two hands to insert it into the hole... i'm going to need to bring a ruler or hit the gym or something....

I don't think that spec can be right. The Supercharger cables are way lighter and seem more flexible - no question. But they're also shorter.

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