Tesla Slashes Prices

[RedStallion]

Tesla is just a car company which built too much capacity that they can't sell. They have to cut prices to keep the "growth story" going, that's how they keep investors (crazies like Cathie Wood) pumping more money in the stock with the perpetual story of one day running the world. Car companies that make profits are evaluated at PE under 10, companies that sell dreams can have any arbitrary high PE.



The problem for Tesla is that they still keep losing the market share in every market, so it's hard to sell a growth story to rational investors.

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[theduke]

Tesla is just a car company which built too much capacity that they can't sell. They have to cut prices to keep the "growth story" going, that's how they keep investors (crazies like Cathie Wood) pumping more money in the stock with the perpetual story of one day running the world. Car companies that make profits are evaluated at PE under 10, companies that sell dreams can have any arbitrary high PE.



The problem for Tesla is that they still keep losing the market share in every market, so it's hard to sell a growth story to rational investors.

It's a bit deceptive to quote "EV marketshare". The most appropriate marketshare is total automotive marketshare, because in the end that's all that matters. All or almost all autos will transition over from ICE to EV (either by competition, or by gov mandate).

Tesla has ~4% share in the US, and 1.5-2% world wide. That's a pretty impressive growth in 10 years given that the largest is Toyota worldwide at 11.5%, and their product mix has ASPs coming in about 40% lower in price.

EV market share is just a red hearing that the bobble heads like to throw out because they know Tesla has no where to go but down as new companies enter that "market". They do it because it means they don't have to talk about how Tesla went from a few thousand cars in 2012, to 500,000 in 2020, to 1.3 million last year, and an annualized run rate right now of 1.63 mil.

 

[voxel]

Technically Mach-E is losing EV market share too (Bolt eating Ford’s lunch and numerous competitors ramping up production like VW and BMW) so I guess by the arguments above it is faltering.

 

[Mach1E]

And yet he did nothing illegal or that was not available to anyone else.

You are proposing that he should play by a completely different set of rules than everyone else. I think that's just a personal bias coming through there, not anything objective.

Never said he did anything illegal.

You’re just further proving my guess about you that you think that “legal” and “moral” are the same thing.

My point is that you can do things that are perfectly legal, within the rules, and still be a scumbag.

And taking advantage of government money and using your money and influence to change laws that result in you being the richest person in the country…….. makes you a scumbag.

A perfectly legal rule abiding scumbag.

 

[Mach1E]

Everyone else is benefitting from government rebates, it's not like special treatment, when you file your taxes by the end of the year, I don't think Socialists people in the US are not claiming any tax benefits on their tax forms!

Not sure that the consumers really benefited since the manufacturers just raised prices as a result of the tax credits.

 

[theduke]

Never said he did anything illegal.

You’re just further proving my guess about you that you think that “legal” and “moral” are the same thing.

My point is that you can do things that are perfectly legal, within the rules, and still be a scumbag.

And taking advantage of government money and using your money and influence to change laws that result in you being the richest person in the country…….. makes you a scumbag.

A perfectly legal rule abiding scumbag.

Which law did he change? Tesla didn't lobby for the IRA, FYI. Musk came out publicly against it, and all subsidies.

 

[Regulus7]

Tesla has basically just 2 models. The S and X don’t really count. In some areas the penetration of Ys and 3s is just crazy. I am happy to pay more for a different car.

I am not debating the value proposition of buying a M3P with full rebate…. But. For decades you could spend 1/2 or even 1/3 to buy a US made muscle car but that did not stop people from buying Porsche….

 

[Mach1E]

Which law did he change? Tesla didn't lobby for the IRA, FYI. Musk came out publicly against it, and all subsidies.

And this is just recently:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/09...illions-to-influence-politics-and-policy.html

He’s been at this for a long time now.

 

[theduke]

And this is just recently:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/09...illions-to-influence-politics-and-policy.html

He’s been at this for a long time now.

There are no laws there that he got passed, and what you quoted was an article from 2 years ago . . .


Are you just being emotional or something because you don't like his politics?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

What I don't understand is why there are a bunch of sock puppets coming in to the Mustang forums trying to promote some other brand's junk.

 

[RedStallion]

What I don't understand is why there are a bunch of sock puppets coming in to the Mustang forums trying to promote some other brand's junk.

Seeking attention, they want validation they bought the right car, joined the right religious cult, but nobody around cares. A child would throw a tantrum, an adult would go to a forum and try to stir things up.

 

[devmach-e]

The problem for Tesla is that they still keep losing the market share in every market, so it's hard to sell a growth story to rational investors.

It is possible for Tesla to lose market share and yet grow as a company. Say the market for EVs is 1M cars this year. They could sell 800K of those, with the rest going to Ford, GM, etc. So they have a market share of 80%. Suppose the market for EVs next year is 1.5M. Tesla sells 1M. Their market share drops to 66%, but their sales went up 25%.

 

[Mach1E]

There are no laws there that he got passed, and what you quoted was an article from 2 years ago . . .


Are you just being emotional or something because you don't like his politics?

Why do you keep making straw man arguments, now ad hominem attacks?

Never said he got laws passed. Just that he lobbied.

He took advantage of government money to make himself filthy rich, then continues to use his money and power to influence politics to his advantage.

Is there anything in the above statement you actually have a real argument against? Or are you just going to talk in the same “but it was legal” circles?

No clue why Tesla fanboys and employees keep showing up on our forum to only talk about Tesla and how great Musk is……….

Shocker……this is you:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/members/the-duke.54683/#about

 

[theduke]

Why do you keep making straw man arguments, now ad hominem attacks?

Never said he got laws passed. Just that he lobbied.

He took advantage of government money to make himself filthy rich, then continues to use his money and power to influence politics to his advantage.

Is there anything in the above statement you actually have a real argument against? Or are you just going to talk in the same “but it was legal” circles?

No clue why Tesla fanboys and employees keep showing up on our forum to only talk about Tesla and how great Musk is……….

Shocker……this is you:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/members/the-duke.54683/#about

No, that's not me, but I like his name. And no, I don't work for Tesla.

I also don't own the car listed in his signature. I would love to have a car as fast as a P100D or Plaid, but that's way out of my budget. I have two salvage-titled old Model S's that I rebuilt.

I love EVs, travel a ton for work and rent non-Tesla EVs every chance I get.

I came here to have some discussions with non-Tesla EV drivers, not get into fights. I only put an "ad hominem attack" your direction after you tossed one my way. I'm a nice guy, but I do toss stuff back when people toss it at me.

 

[Yerfdog56]

Never said he did anything illegal.

You’re just further proving my guess about you that you think that “legal” and “moral” are the same thing.

My point is that you can do things that are perfectly legal, within the rules, and still be a scumbag.

And taking advantage of government money and using your money and influence to change laws that result in you being the richest person in the country…….. makes you a scumbag.

A perfectly legal rule abiding scumbag.

Doesn't this logic make all automotive manufacturers scumbags that use the ZEV credits to subsidize their gas guzzler trucks and SUV's? Seems Ford and GM fit that description.

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