Tesla Slashes Prices

[theduke]

3) If you're talking about AP alone, then you're probably referring to the Consumer report article. But did you actually read the article vs just the headline? The most import criteria is capability and performance and Tesla scored a 9/10, only Mercedez beat it. And that's AP without FSD or Enhanced AP. I really don't know how how they gave Tesla a 5/10 on ease of use. All that is required is to tap the right stalk down twice. I'm not sure how it can be an simpler. Other criteria include keeping driver engaged. I don't want my car beeping at me all the time.

The AP from that review is also the codebase from 2016. It's essentially been unchanged until about a month ago, when the FSD stack and AP stack were merged. I test drove a M3 Perf the other day and it had the latest software. AP on highway was incredibly good, I was shocked at how well it handled traffic, speed changes, and curves in the highway. Made me consider getting rid of one of my old 2013 Model S's (but those are paid for, can't beat that).

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[MacherAWD]

1) regarding range, Tesla claim 330 miles based on verified EPA testing. How can you call that misleading? They didn't cheat like VW diesel scandal. Other manufacturers except for Porsche, also overstate their range compared to real world range if you're going to use that standard.

2) Please show me one test where FSD was compared to other commercially available autonomous system.

3) If you're talking about AP alone, then you're probably referring to the Consumer report article. But did you actually read the article vs just the headline? The most import criteria is capability and performance and Tesla scored a 9/10, only Mercedez beat it. And that's AP without FSD or Enhanced AP. I really don't know how how they gave Tesla a 5/10 on ease of use. All that is required is to tap the right stalk down twice. I'm not sure how it can be an simpler. Other criteria include keeping driver engaged. I don't want my car beeping at me all the time.

4) As far as charging map integration, Tesla still does it the best with preconditioning, listing how many stations are available in real time, the charge rate, etc. So I still think they do it the best.

5) Bringing up Fox news, now it make sense where your bias against tesla is coming from. You could of mention CNN or Washing Post and their settle lawsuit with Sandmann. If you want to talk about false narrative.

6) I'm all for more choices in EVs, So more is better. The Korean brands have nice interior, not sold on the exterior though.

Sorry have to check out, if you are not appalled about what fox has been up to you are not worth conversing with. Good luck with your Tesla.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Sorry have to check out, if you are not appalled about what fox has been up to you are not worth conversing with. Good luck with your Tesla.

This attitude is why there is so much hostility and polarization today. Good luck in your echo chamber.

 

[shelnian]

I don't blame Tesla for lowering prices, it's all about supply and demand. Tesla doesn't want to reduce the output of their gigafactories, they want to increase output so when demand goes down, they lower prices to move product (capitalism at it's best).
The reason Tesla is building a new low cost car in Mexico is to compete with the cheap EVs coming out of China, Vietnam, Korea, etc. It will also compete directly with ICE cars not only on sales price but total cost of ownership.
GM has already thrown in the towel on EV cars and is concentrating their efforts on trucks and large SUVs, since Tesla hasn't provided much competition in this sector.
It wouldn't surprise me if Ford doesn't follow suit in a year or so.

 

[voxel]

I think carmakers are pumping out too many cars for the current demand which is why EV days supply of cars is 75 (trucks are far worse at 120-150 days). Telsa will cut prices further IMO and other carmakers will follow suit because demand is softening.

More deals like $17.5K off Volvo C40s leases and $600/months leases on $110K+ Mercedes EQSes will appear.

 

[Auto Motive]

I think he is pointing out that Tesla regularly manipulates data in their favor, 330 mile range on MYLR.... And having worked in software and running stats on large data you can get it to say whatever you want. My first thought was the same as his, let's compare with and without, vs similar newer cars.

We have a GTPE and in 50 deg and above run 3.0kwh in under 50 mph and 3.5 at 65 mph with ac at 65-68. We have a new Tesla Y AWD long range running 5kwh under 50 mph. Highway not yet tested. Assume at 65mph to get roughly 4 to 4.5 kwh which is pretty close to 330 mile range in combined driving.

 

[MacherAWD]

We have a GTPE and in 50 deg and above run 3.0kwh in under 50 mph and 3.5 at 65 mph with ac at 65-68. We have a new Tesla Y AWD long range running 5kwh under 50 mph. Highway not yet tested. Assume at 65mph to get roughly 4 to 4.5 kwh which is pretty close to 330 mile range in combined driving.

Yes it's close but the gtpe is getting well above it's stated range in your example and the Tesla getting stated range. so 65mph puts your gtpe at 315ish miles and the Tesla at 335ish. It's a 75 kw battery vs a 92kw. Quick search says gtpe range is 260 vs 330, am I missing something?

 

[voxel]

Yes it's close but the gtpe is getting well above it's stated range in your example and the Tesla getting stated range. so 65mph puts your gtpe at 315ish miles and the Tesla at 335ish. It's a 75 kw battery vs a 92kw. Quick search says gtpe range is 260 vs 330, am I missing something?

I think all his numbers are off. There is no fricking way a GT PE gets 3.5 mi/kWh. I think I saw 3.0 mi/kWh ONCE. My running average was 2.5 mi/kWh with 80% highway at ~70mph.

MYLR isn't getting 4.0-4.5mi/kWh... that's Model 3 efficiency. It's closer to 3.6-3.8 mi/kWh at 70mph.

 

[devmach-e]

1) regarding range, Tesla claim 330 miles based on verified EPA testing. How can you call that misleading? They didn't cheat like VW diesel scandal. Other manufacturers except for Porsche, also overstate their range compared to real world range if you're going to use that standard.

No manufacturer overstates their range as compared to real world range. They are only allowed to advertise the range from the EPA tests, period. They are allowed to publish a lower number than what the EPA test showed because they used an alternate test cycle. There is no claim being made, it is simply what the EPA results are.

 

[MacherAWD]

No manufacturer overstates their range as compared to real world range. They are only allowed to advertise the range from the EPA tests, period. They are allowed to publish a lower number than what the EPA test showed because they used an alternate test cycle. There is no claim being made, it is simply what the EPA results are.

So if every car company uses a lower results test, and one company uses a higher results test, then yes nothing was done wrong. For that one company and all its minions to go on and on about how the car has SO much range IS WRONG, truth in advertising would be acknowledging they use a different test so results may vary....

 

[Mach1E]

So if every car company uses a lower results test, and one company uses a higher results test, then yes nothing was done wrong. For that one company and all its minions to go on and on about how the car has SO much range IS WRONG, truth in advertising would be acknowledging they use a different test so results may vary....

Yup.

Is there a difference between lying and being “knowingly dishonest?”

Might as well tell people that I did 0-60 in 3.0 seconds in a Mach E GT…….. without disclosing that it was down a mountain. It’s science 101, can’t make a comparison without disclosing and/or removing variables.

 

[SWO]

Tesla uses the EPA 5-Cycle test to intentionally goose their numbers. Theres plenty of objective tests out there showing that they won't achieve anything close to their EPA numbers, though Tesla fools a lot of their owners with equally unrealistic range estimates (Guess-O-Meter) leading to silliness like Tesla owners claiming they have no winter range degradation ("heat pump works so great!").

I hate it because it's basically telling all car companies they should lie to their customers like Tesla does.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Yup.

Is there a difference between lying and being “knowingly dishonest?”

Might as well tell people that I did 0-60 in 3.0 seconds in a Mach E GT…….. without disclosing that it was down a mountain. It’s science 101, can’t make a comparison without disclosing and/or removing variables.

or advertising 480 hp. But leaving out that you only get it for 5secs. Hmmm. Truth in advertising.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

No manufacturer overstates their range as compared to real world range. They are only allowed to advertise the range from the EPA tests, period. They are allowed to publish a lower number than what the EPA test showed because they used an alternate test cycle. There is no claim being made, it is simply what the EPA results are.

That’s what I’m saying. Their epa range is higher than their real range.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Tesla uses the EPA 5-Cycle test to intentionally goose their numbers. Theres plenty of objective tests out there showing that they won't achieve anything close to their EPA numbers, though Tesla fools a lot of their owners with equally unrealistic range estimates (Guess-O-Meter) leading to silliness like Tesla owners claiming they have no winter range degradation ("heat pump works so great!").

I hate it because it's basically telling all car companies they should lie to their customers like Tesla does.

are you claiming that Teslas are not more efficient than cars that use resistive heaters and that heat pump don’t help with efficiency?

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