Tesla Supercharger Network vs. the World

[EVer]

I did that, back on the second page:https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...r-network-vs-the-world.1833/page-2#post-52166

You said:
“combined Service and Charging revenue for Tesla was $800M in 2019 several multiples over previous years. From cost center to profit center.”

I refuted the notion, posting the best source, Tesla’s SEC filing, showing north of 2 billion in service revenue in 2019, resulting in a half billion dollar overall loss in service in 2019.

The best source, and the only source, is Tesla’s 2019 year-end filing: https://ir.tesla.com/_flysystem/s3/sec/000156459020004475/tsla-10k_20191231-gen_0.pdf

You then claimed:

“The $800M in revenue was for service (which Musk said EVs don't need) and for charging (which Musk said was not going to be profit center even though Tesla marks up the power twice cost.

The lines for service and charging bear this out.”

Show it. Here and now, show the lines for “service and charging” which bear out $800M in service revenue rather than the $2226 million in service revenue on page 69, and the $2770 million cost of service revenue on the same page.

If you can pinpoint even $1 of supercharging revenue in the SEC filing, or support a combined total revenue for service AND charging fully $1.4 billion less than the service and other category alone, I’ll happily admit my mistake.

Back up your claims.

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[Stickboy46]

I did that, back on the second page:https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...r-network-vs-the-world.1833/page-2#post-52166

You said:
“combined Service and Charging revenue for Tesla was $800M in 2019 several multiples over previous years. From cost center to profit center.”

I refuted the notion, posting the best source, Tesla’s SEC filing, showing north of 2 billion in service revenue in 2019, resulting in a half billion dollar overall loss in service in 2019.

The best source, and the only source, is Tesla’s 2019 year-end filing: https://ir.tesla.com/_flysystem/s3/sec/000156459020004475/tsla-10k_20191231-gen_0.pdf

You then claimed:

“The $800M in revenue was for service (which Musk said EVs don't need) and for charging (which Musk said was not going to be profit center even though Tesla marks up the power twice cost.

The lines for service and charging bear this out.”

Show it. Here and now, show the lines for “service and charging” which bear out $800M in service revenue rather than the $2226 million in service revenue on page 69, and the $2770 million cost of service revenue on the same page.

If you can pinpoint even $1 of supercharging revenue in the SEC filing, or support a combined total revenue for service AND charging fully $1.4 billion less than the service and other category alone, I’ll happily admit my mistake.

Back up your claims.

It's best to just ignore him. He has a very irrational hatred of Tesla and will never accept anything even remotely positive about them. It seems to stem from them not having blind spot indicators... Which from what I've gathered from his posts is the single most important feature on a car.

 

[EVer]

Neither of those links reveal your claimed $800 million in revenue in 2019. Also, neither of those links contain the word: "charging."

Try again, back up your claims, neither of those links support anything you're said herein. Alternately you could admit you made it up.

That link confirms what I wrote on page 2: add the numbers in the bar chart for Q1 through Q4 2019 and you get, ahem: $2226 million. It also confirms what I wrote on page 2: Tesla loses money on service.

Yes, I agree with that link, sub-titled: Tesla electric car sales make up the biggest share of revenue.

93% of revenue and most of their profit comes from their automotive business. Gee whiz! You selectively pulled out a quote to imply what, that those figures only represent service? The first sentence is rather important. I'm sure you just mistakenly deleted it.

 

[EVer]

It's best to just ignore him. He has a very irrational hatred of Tesla and will never accept anything even remotely positive about them. It seems to stem from them not having blind spot indicators... Which from what I've gathered from his posts is the single most important feature on a car.

My Tesla has blind spot indicators. Maybe he made up owning a Telsa Model 3 LR AWD like he made up the nonsense he posted here.

 

[EVer]

Let’s recap.

I said: “While tesla currently loses money with the network...”

You tried to correct me, stating: “Tesla made $500M on EV charging in 2019.”

I asked you to cite your source. You didn’t. Chances are: you are the source.


You then said: “combined Service and Charging revenue for Tesla was $800M in 2019.”
I responded, citing the actual financial statement: “Service revenue wasn’t $800 million, it was $2.2 billion. Service profit wasn’t profit at all, it was a more than $0.5 billion loss.”

You then said: “The $800M in revenue was for service... and for charging,” which would be impossible given that service and other alone was 2.2 billion. You can’t add to that and come up with a smaller number.

You further said: “The lines for service and charging bear this out.”

I challenged you: show us the lines. You didn’t. Because you can’t, because as above, you made it up.

Then you challenged my source, which was the freaking SEC filing: “Tesla statements are bare minimum and notoriously opaque,” after which you post two links which confirm what I stated before, and refute what you claimed.

Now, when I point that out, you send up a smoke screen of irrelevant data, and claim I said something I never did: “You say it went up $2.2B, they say $800-$500M. Yours didn't count the ZEV's credits that make Tesla profitable so we'll go by the experts and with $800-$500B.”

I didn’t say anything “went up” $2.2B; that’s the total revenue for “service and other” in 2019. Of course it doesn’t include ZEV credits, those are in a different category.

You also now state that ZEV credits make Tesla profitable, when a few days ago you said selling electricity was their highest profit source.

At no point have you been able to defend any of your claims.

Bottom line: you’re lying, you’re inconsistent, and you’re wrong.

 

[DBC]

I was looking at the Biden stimulus plan and as part of a climate change/economic growth plan -- basically an infrastructure program which all major unions have signed off on -- it calls for the installation of 550,000 charging stations (that's stations not chargers).

Not only would that help EV adoption in a big way, it would instantly make the Tesla Supercharger network somewhat redundant. For all car manufacturers other than Tesla this would be a big plus as the BEV mandates kick in. And even for Tesla the gains from having so many chargers available would likely outweigh any losses related to a marketing advantage of the superchargers.

 

[EVer]

It boggles the mind that anyone would need to consult with financial experts to read a simple chart. It is as clear as day.

 

[DBC]

In the long run but in the long run we're all dead. The real alternative to the Tesla network for distance is EA, and that is entirely funded by government fines.

If you want infrastructure fast then the government will have to play a big role. The entire idea that "free markets" can do things that they obviously aren't designed to do is absurd.

The electric utilities would likely take care of the issue but they are government created monopolies and state PUCs won't allow them to use their monopoly power (rightly or wrongly).

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