The GT never had a 5 second limit

[Mach1E]

So, I just took the car out and ran some tests. It's 73 mph that adds 2 bars. I started with 1, went to 3. At 72 mph, after being above 73 mph via a slow climb, I immediately loose the 2 bars extra and go back to 1. This is exactly what I've been saying.

Now if I give it 3/4 throttle from 0-93, I get a f*ck ton of bars. After I drop below 72 mph, they are still present. Which is what I've been saying.

They are two totally different sets of bars. Yes there's bars at 73mph, there's another set of bars at 80mph and there's a whole different set of bars at 5-7 seconds, whatever the magical performance limiter is at. I'm not hard stuck on it being an exact 5 seconds, it's close to that. But it's a time limited run that adds bars.

Start Bars:

76 mph (slow climb) bars:

72 mph (slow climb) bars:

0-(whatever) 3/4 throttle (0-60 in 5 sec):

Then I guess we are saying the same thing, but expressing it differently.

And because the time based discharge formula is a moving number, I don’t want to call it “5 seconds.”

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[Mach1E]

Pretty sure it's a time based moving average. Something like amps^2 * seconds ≤ limit in a x second period. That video was like ~5.6 seconds before the limit kicked in hard.

What Todd is saying is correct. There's a slight limit that happens purely because of speed. Pretty sure this is indicating the reduced power output of the motors due to back EMF, which increases with motor speed and is just unavoidable physics. Then there is a separate power limit that comes in based off amp draw. Cold battery temps will also introduce their own power limit. And then there are limits related to low state of charge to protect the cells from excessive discharge.

When people talk about the 5 second limit, they are referring to the limit component that's the direct result of drawing a lot of power in a short time. Not the speed/temperature/SoC components, which are separate algorithms. The computer is looking at all the limit algorithms at the same time, and whichever limit component is greatest wins and is followed.

If Ford improves the 5 second power limit, you will still see the couple jail bars at high speed and at cold temps, those won't change. But hopefully the big time jail bars won't come in for a few more seconds at WOT compared to now.

If you do a run at 1/2 throttle, you'll get more seconds before the limit kicks in because the product of amps and seconds isn't as high as full throttle. It's just harder to know the jail bars aren't from speed vs. the amp draw because the speed bars might set faster than the amp draw product bars.

This whole thread is really just a bunch of semantics. People say "5 second rule" when talking about the time/amperage based power limit because it ends up being about 5 seconds at full throttle, hence the name. Not the best name for it, but it's not completely wrong either. Total clickbait thread title BTW. Snopes would rate your claim a 5-second rule doesn't exist as "mostly false."

No worries, I called out my clickbait title in post #15 and semantics in another post. It was to create discussion about what really is happening.


You said “If Ford improves the 5 second power limit, you will still see the couple jail bars at high speed and at cold temps, those won't change.”

I hope you’re wrong about this, but we will see. My hope is that when he said “we will change that limit,” it meant that ALL the restrictions will be increased and some possibly removed.

Like the speed limit at 72. If the time adjusted limit changes, the speed limit HAS to change. And honestly? I think it should be removed altogether.

If we have a discharge over time limit, the speed limit is pointless. Removing it would mean you have the potential for SOME boost at any speed. Would help for highway passing.

I agree with what you say about all the limits, as well as what you say “when people talk about the 5 second limit….”

But that’s the issue with the idea of calling it a “5 sec limit.” It’s only one piece of the puzzle and not even an accurate one at that.

People talk about is as if it’s the only limiting factor (even though most here know better).

I don’t think I’ve seen a single review article even mention all the limiting factors at once. We focus in on the cough, when we have a headache, sore throat, sneezing, fever and a runny nose…….. on top of the cough.

If someone came to me with all those symptoms and wanted to call it all a “cough,” I’d probably argue those semantics too. ?

 

[HuntingPudel]

I’m convinced remote start breaks things.
<SNIP>

In my case, the remote start seemed to shake things loose. The TCU wasn’t communicating with Ford. Ford telling the car to start through my account seemed to break something loose, since all of the stored alerts for two days began their release from the car to Ford, then to me. All is still well for my car this morning. ?‍?

 

[CYBER-O]

With all this talk about a magical 72 MPH, I wondering what happens at 88 MPH!!!

 

[TheRighteousOne]

You're still picking and choosing whatever you think fits your narrative. They flat our say, "The way Ford explained it, it gives full power for about 5 seconds then it ramps back the battery power to limit heating. It's done for long-term battery life in order for Ford to guarantee 70-plus percent battery life for 8 years." Straight from Ford.

If Ford flat out told the media that it's 5 seconds then it's a rule.

Your symptom vs disease statement is what I said, but you disagreed with, and now you're agreeing with? I can't win...



Either way, it's 5 seconds. If 5 seconds gets you to 80 like car and driver said, ok so? It's still 5 seconds. If it gets you to 60, it's 5 seconds, so? 80 will give you more jail bars because you get them added on for speed. None of that has anything to do with the fact that there's a five second limitation on power.

Dude Ford explained it that way because they knew people are in general too stupid to understand more complex information.... which you're clearly demonstrating lol

 

[DevSecOps]

Dude Ford explained it that way because they knew people are in general too stupid to understand more complex information.... which you're clearly demonstrating lol

Dude, thank you for your first post being in response to me, I'm honored. Especially from someone so righteous!

Since you happen to know everything Ford does could you please explain it better? I mean it's not like we've been testing this for 2 years now. It's not like the media and car enthusiasts running the car at the track know what they're talking about either. So please, fill us in!

 

[TheRighteousOne]

Dude, thank you for your first post being in response to me, I'm honored. Especially from someone so righteous!

Since you happen to know everything Ford does could you please explain it better? I mean it's not like we've been testing this for 2 years now. It's not like the media and car enthusiasts running the car at the track know what they're talking about either. So please, fill us in!

Glad I could brighten your day ?

Frankly I don't need to explain it better. OP has outlined the actual parameters, which I've also tested myself in my 22 GTPE, and what has been posted is accurate.

There is no "5 second rule"... You simply can't understand the information or concept that is being put forth apparently.

This is the first thread that actually touches on the true limitations and does a decent job of explaining them, and considering you are posting with "hard disagrees" and "5 Limit Rule exists 100000%", I found it ironic at just how confident and completely wrong someone can be at the exact same time.

 

[DevSecOps]

Glad I could brighten your day ?

Frankly I don't need to explain it better. OP has outlined the actual parameters, which I've also tested myself in my 22 GTPE, and what has been posted is accurate.

There is no "5 second rule"... You simply can't understand the information or concept that is being put forth apparently.

This is the first thread that actually touches on the true limitations and does a decent job of explaining them, and considering you are posting with "hard disagrees" and "5 Limit Rule exists 100000%", I found it ironic at just how confident and completely wrong someone can be at the exact same time.

Glad to see that reading comprehension is top notch in Canada. I'm not disagreeing with the OPs assertion that there's speed limited jail bars. I have agreed with that and never argued that. It's not the only thing however that limits performance. I even made a video proving it, but yet, I'm still wrong according to the righteous one.

 

[Mach1E]

Glad I could brighten your day ?

Frankly I don't need to explain it better. OP has outlined the actual parameters, which I've also tested myself in my 22 GTPE, and what has been posted is accurate.

There is no "5 second rule"... You simply can't understand the information or concept that is being put forth apparently.

This is the first thread that actually touches on the true limitations and does a decent job of explaining them, and considering you are posting with "hard disagrees" and "5 Limit Rule exists 100000%", I found it ironic at just how confident and completely wrong someone can be at the exact same time.

While I appreciate you agreeing with me, just to be totally transparent- I’m not 100% confident about the parameters either.

I just don’t like the idea of it all being lumped under the same title “5 sec limit,” as I’m somewhat convinced the limits have nothing to do with a 5 sec timer.

Most of the back and forth between myself and @DevSecOps has nothing to do with intelligence or understanding. It’s more about semantics on how to describe and determine what’s actually happening.

We all agree multiple variables are cutting power (speed, discharge rate, temp, etc) and that power gets cut around 5 sec in.

But since there are multiple variables, is it a 5 sec timer or just a discharge rate over time in addition to hitting the 72 mph speed limit (that we all agree exists)?

Until someone cracks the tuning code, we may not know for sure.

Even the proposed tests won’t be conclusive because of the multiple variables.

 

[Alutacon]

That's interesting. On my weekend trips I am always going more than 72 and have never seen the jailbars, the only time I ever see them is when HVB gets below 40%

I'm in the 90s and 100s regularly and almost.never see the bars. You can definitely feel the power drop off though.

 

[Mach1E]

I'm in the 90s and 100s regularly and almost.never see the bars. You can definitely feel the power drop off though.

You may not see them, but they’re there. Take a picture and zoom in. When you only have 1-4 grey bars it’s not so obvious.

 

[buzznwood]

While I appreciate you agreeing with me, just to be totally transparent- I’m not 100% confident about the parameters either.

I just don’t like the idea of it all being lumped under the same title “5 sec limit,” as I’m somewhat convinced the limits have nothing to do with a 5 sec timer.

Most of the back and forth between myself and @DevSecOps has nothing to do with intelligence or understanding. It’s more about semantics on how to describe and determine what’s actually happening.

We all agree multiple variables are cutting power (speed, discharge rate, temp, etc) and that power gets cut around 5 sec in.

But since there are multiple variables, is it a 5 sec timer or just a discharge rate over time in addition to hitting the 72 mph speed limit (that we all agree exists)?

Until someone cracks the tuning code, we may not know for sure.

Even the proposed tests won’t be conclusive because of the multiple variables.

The time Ford first acknowledged the limit was for the European GT (GTPE over this side of the pond as there is no GT/GTPE split) where all it states is you will get a 480hp power boost for 5 seconds.

Two AC motors individually drive the Mustang Mach‑E GT’s front and rear wheels, combining to produce up to 487 PS of power and an unprecedented 860 Nm of torque (6) – almost 15 per cent more torque than the exclusive, ultra-high-performance Ford GT supercar.

(6) Calculated via peak performance of the electric motors at peak battery power. Your results may vary. 487 PS performance boost delivered for 5 seconds.

Ideally what you need to see is the actual power curve of the motors, as the output of both motors at full power would produce 562hp, you do get the full 634 lb-ft of torque potential of both motors so at some point power is being reduced from one or both motors to get it down to 480hp at what rpm that happens and how ford have setup the transition from constant torque to constant power on the motors may help explain the various oddities in regards to the limitations beyond just state of charge.

 

[Alutacon]

You may not see them, but they’re there. Take a picture and zoom in. When you only have 1-4 grey bars it’s not so obvious.

Yeah, I actually went outta my way to look today and hell yeah.....there they were

 

[Mach1E]

The time Ford first acknowledged the limit was for the European GT (GTPE over this side of the pond as there is no GT/GTPE split) where all it states is you will get a 480hp power boost for 5 seconds.

Two AC motors individually drive the Mustang Mach‑E GT’s front and rear wheels, combining to produce up to 487 PS of power and an unprecedented 860 Nm of torque (6) – almost 15 per cent more torque than the exclusive, ultra-high-performance Ford GT supercar.

(6) Calculated via peak performance of the electric motors at peak battery power. Your results may vary. 487 PS performance boost delivered for 5 seconds.

Ideally what you need to see is the actual power curve of the motors, as the output of both motors at full power would produce 562hp, you do get the full 634 lb-ft of torque potential of both motors so at some point power is being reduced from one or both motors to get it down to 480hp at what rpm that happens and how ford have setup the transition from constant torque to constant power on the motors may help explain the various oddities in regards to the limitations beyond just state of charge.

If I remember correctly, they’re legally forced to put a time description when power is reduced over the pond.

Still makes it a description of what is happening, not necessarily why it’s haopening.

And sadly that disclaimer is missing so much information. I wish they were forced to tell us what power was reduced to! The problem is that unlike our competitors, it’s a moving target.

Still waiting for someone to throw one on a Dyno. Ideally now with the limit, and then after they give us the power update or whenever a 2024 hits the road to compare.

 

[circatee]

Honestly, I am rather confused, and a little frustrated with this 5 second limit 'feature'/topic from Ford (not the forums).
Maybe Ford expressed this, somewhere on their website, etcetera. However, during my research in purchasing my GTPE, I never came across this.

My concern now is, if I am driving long distances, and want to set cruise control to say, 80/85 mph (in those states that allow 80 on the motorway), are we now saying the car will not be able to maintain that speed? See, am confused!

And, before anyone says I should have researched first, prior to purchase, I am not interested. In my research, I didn't find this '5 second limit' data...

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