Why Can't The Mach-E GT Do This?

Pushrods&Capacitors

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It’s hard to argue with actual video evidence, yet here we are.

More likely the explanation for the 12 second 1/4 mile? They’re in England and it’s winter.

The video was posted a week ago. The highs in London this week? In the low 40s F.
Correct. And in the end, who gives a shit about ambients, they both ran in the same air together, right? Always the excuses with Teslas I swear. Whatever.
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Mach1E

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That’s a lot of excuses my man. In that race the 3 lost and the gap was growing. Mat Watson does a good job in the Carwow drag videos and the Teslas usually win. They don’t misstate car models. The guy usually driving the Teslas has his own EV reselling business called RSEV or something. They’re not some clueless schmucks. Watch their other videos if you haven’t already. I don’t care about each car’s SOC or ambient temps, it lost and it got worse the higher they went. If the point was lost on you, it was that another new performance EV went out and put down power continuously well enough to pull away from a 3 P, get it? Something a GT can only do for 5 secs currently.
Noteworthy that the BMW only gets 10 seconds of boost, but the drop in power isn’t extreme.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/amp37943924/bmw-i4-m50-i4-edrive40-review/

“The i4 M50 offers peak power bursts in 10-second increments of 536 hp and 586 lb-ft of torque, with a normal output of 469 hp and 538 lb-ft the rest of the time.”
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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Noteworthy that the BMW only gets 10 seconds of boost, but the drop in power isn’t extreme.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/amp37943924/bmw-i4-m50-i4-edrive40-review/

“The i4 M50 offers peak power bursts in 10-second increments of 536 hp and 586 lb-ft of torque, with a normal output of 469 hp and 538 lb-ft the rest of the time.”
Yep. Like most other performance EVs, state the boosted, launch control output and duration, then provide the continuous output number as well. Not Ford though. 480/634 for 5 secs then less than a 4X the rest of the way pal…..
 

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That’s a lot of excuses my man. In that race the 3 lost and the gap was growing. Mat Watson does a good job in the Carwow drag videos and the Teslas usually win. They don’t misstate car models. The guy usually driving the Teslas has his own EV reselling business called RSEV or something. They’re not some clueless schmucks. Watch their other videos if you haven’t already. I don’t care about each car’s SOC or ambient temps, it lost and it got worse the higher they went. If the point was lost on you, it was that another new performance EV went out and put down power continuously well enough to pull away from a 3 P, get it? Something a GT can only do for 5 secs currently.
Correct. And in the end, who gives a shit about ambients, they both ran in the same air together, right? Always the excuses with Teslas I swear. Whatever.
LOL. You guys are funny. I didn't say anything about ambient temperature or SOC. I don't give a shit about someone's other videos. The M3P reliably runs the 1/4 in 11.4 - 11.5. The BMW in this race did what, 11.9? No, I call bullshit.

"It's hard to argue against video evidence?" LMFAO. Yeah, I guess Superman can really fly, I saw it on video! I saw a video a few years back that all the News schmucks were raving over where some bozo was flying by strapping wings to his arms and flying by flapping his arms. Oh, he used a laptop battery to power the wings! Half the world thought it was real, LOL. Even now, there's another guy that releases videos every now and then showing his jet powered hover board. Powered with fuel from his back pack, LOL. Anyone that knows anything about aerodynamics and jet engines knows with zero doubt that the video is fake. Half the world, including the media, still thinks he's for real. It's not that the believers are stupid--well, not all of them are stupid-- it's just they want to believe so they ignore reality. You guys want to believe this shit, so you do--despite the fact that you know the M3P is easy an 11.5 car. But gee, you guys are right. A YouTuber that makes money off of hits would NEVER make a clickbait video that wasn't real! ROFL


No excuses. Bring your I4 to PIR (Portland International Raceway) and I'll bring a Model 3 Performance. Loser gives $500 to the winner's favorite charity. Money talks and bullshit walks. Anyone here actually talking? Get it?
 

Mach1E

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LOL. You guys are funny. I didn't say anything about ambient temperature or SOC. I don't give a shit about someone's other videos. The M3P reliably runs the 1/4 in 11.4 - 11.5. The BMW in this race did what, 11.9? No, I call bullshit.

"It's hard to argue against video evidence?" LMFAO. Yeah, I guess Superman can really fly, I saw it on video! I saw a video a few years back that all the News schmucks were raving over where some bozo was flying by strapping wings to his arms and flying by flapping his arms. Oh, he used a laptop battery to power the wings! Half the world thought it was real, LOL. Even now, there's another guy that releases videos every now and then showing his jet powered hover board. Powered with fuel from his back pack, LOL. Anyone that knows anything about aerodynamics and jet engines knows with zero doubt that the video is fake. Half the world, including the media, still thinks he's for real. It's not that the believers are stupid--well, not all of them are stupid-- it's just they want to believe so they ignore reality. You guys want to believe this shit, so you do--despite the fact that you know the M3P is easy an 11.5 car. But gee, you guys are right. A YouTuber that makes money off of hits would NEVER make a clickbait video that wasn't real! ROFL


No excuses. Bring your I4 to PIR (Portland International Raceway) and I'll bring a Model 3 Performance. Loser gives $500 to the winner's favorite charity. Money talks and bullshit walks. Anyone here actually talking? Get it?
Oh my.

You are laughing way too much at yourself.

It’s good that you think showing a Model 3 running a 12 in the 1/4 mile in cold weather is the same as a fictional superhero flying.

Is it really that hard to believe that your car gets slower when it’s 40 degrees out? Feel free to test it yourself.
 


Kevin P

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Is it really that hard to believe that your car gets slower when it’s 40 degrees out? Feel free to test it yourself.
That, and a 4 tenths variance in 1/4 mile time can easily be accounted for by a poor launch or even timing procedures. Expecting a M3P to run an 11.5 every single time in every single type of test with different timing mechanisms, temperature, track surface, etc etc is just silly. The BMW driver even mentioned how he was fighting for traction. Running an 11.9 in this instance is completely within the realm of variance given the above. The only really definite thing is that the BMW was faster ;)
 

tannerk89

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I think the 5 second limit has more to do with the moving average of power delivered over time. an area under the power curve over 5s that’s constantly updating and adjusting output to stay within the power alotment. Probably intended to keep some component temp in check but not actually being limited by that temp.

It doesn’t seem to be strictly related to time of peak output or temp of any of the components shown in the data you guys were sharing. I think that’s why people are reporting several grey bars when traveling on the interstate at 80mph or above then not having very much power for passing etc.

Thanks for all of the data and runs though, super interesting information!
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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LOL. You guys are funny. I didn't say anything about ambient temperature or SOC. I don't give a shit about someone's other videos. The M3P reliably runs the 1/4 in 11.4 - 11.5. The BMW in this race did what, 11.9? No, I call bullshit.

"It's hard to argue against video evidence?" LMFAO. Yeah, I guess Superman can really fly, I saw it on video! I saw a video a few years back that all the News schmucks were raving over where some bozo was flying by strapping wings to his arms and flying by flapping his arms. Oh, he used a laptop battery to power the wings! Half the world thought it was real, LOL. Even now, there's another guy that releases videos every now and then showing his jet powered hover board. Powered with fuel from his back pack, LOL. Anyone that knows anything about aerodynamics and jet engines knows with zero doubt that the video is fake. Half the world, including the media, still thinks he's for real. It's not that the believers are stupid--well, not all of them are stupid-- it's just they want to believe so they ignore reality. You guys want to believe this shit, so you do--despite the fact that you know the M3P is easy an 11.5 car. But gee, you guys are right. A YouTuber that makes money off of hits would NEVER make a clickbait video that wasn't real! ROFL


No excuses. Bring your I4 to PIR (Portland International Raceway) and I'll bring a Model 3 Performance. Loser gives $500 to the winner's favorite charity. Money talks and bullshit walks. Anyone here actually talking? Get it?
Yep. Because most run 11.4-11.7 that means a 12.0 in 40F is fake, right? Give me a break dude. Bring your bad self to TX and let’s do the Texas Mile instead, 1/4s are old news. Better yet, road course work at COTA. Or some 60-130 hits, whatever. ?????‍♂
 

dtbaker61

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I think the 5 second limit has more to do with the moving average of power delivered over time. an area under the power curve over 5s that’s constantly updating and adjusting output to stay within the power alotment. Probably intended to keep some component temp in check but not actually being limited by that temp.

It doesn’t seem to be strictly related to time of peak output or temp of any of the components shown in the data you guys were sharing. I think that’s why people are reporting several grey bars when traveling on the interstate at 80mph or above then not having very much power for passing etc.

Thanks for all of the data and runs though, super interesting information!

exactly..... all you new BEV guys don't seem to quite get it ... yet.

inverters are NOT 100% efficient
this means that x watts have to be dumped as heat depending how many watts they are passing thru

inverter, motor, and battery cooling loops are designed to handle dumping y amount of heat from steady-state loads plus a little for bursts of acceleration. If heat is NOT dumped fast enough, component temp goes up, and software settings are programmed to clamp down, limit output, and reduce watts dumped to heat until temp recovers.

The ONLY way to increase power thruput, and not exceed temperature parameters is to improve cooling.

if you are starting at a highway speed of 80 mph, and 'constant' power is lets say 30kw on a flat road, the coolant is dumping a fair amount of heat already, and full accel will bump that over what can be dumped pretty quickly..... versus from a stop where component and coolant is at lower temps and gives you another few seconds at full power before temp hits the limits and current restrictions kick in.


..... Electric systems are THERMALLY limited, rather than fuel/air like you may be used to.
 
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Pushrods&Capacitors

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That, and a 4 tenths variance in 1/4 mile time can easily be accounted for by a poor launch or even timing procedures. Expecting a M3P to run an 11.5 every single time in every single type of test with different timing mechanisms, temperature, track surface, etc etc is just silly. The BMW driver even mentioned how he was fighting for traction. Running an 11.9 in this instance is completely within the realm of variance given the above. The only really definite thing is that the BMW was faster ;)
Word. My Dragy leaderboard has 3Ps from low 11s to low 12s. Similar with YPs, except those are 2-3 tenths slower because 400 extra lbs. And all of the fastest ones are the European guys who are tuned.
 

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Oh my.

You are laughing way too much at yourself.

It’s good that you think showing a Model 3 running a 12 in the 1/4 mile in cold weather is the same as a fictional superhero flying.

Is it really that hard to believe that your car gets slower when it’s 40 degrees out? Feel free to test it yourself.
Hmm, not so good with the logic, huh? Let's try and make it simple for you. Videos can be faked, they can be slanted, they offer no definitive proof of anything--be it super heroes or drag races. Try and keep up, OK? My MYP loses about .1 at 40 degrees, about the same as my buddy's M3P loses. In fact, I don't lose anything if I don't want to, I just precondition the battery. You can do that too, right?
 

Nak

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Yep. Because most run 11.4-11.7 that means a 12.0 in 40F is fake, right? Give me a break dude. Bring your bad self to TX and let’s do the Texas Mile instead, 1/4s are old news. Better yet, road course work at COTA. Or some 60-130 hits, whatever. ?????‍♂
You are the one making ridiculous claims. I made an offer, you don't want to take me up on it. We both know there's members of this forum you could talk to that live here. But no, you'd rather talk garbage than actually walk the walk, LOL. BTW, if 1/4s are such old news, why did you post the video? That's OK, I get it. You're a typical internet big talker. You can't back up your actual discussion I responded to, so you change the subject. Please continue. And yes, I understand a Stock M3P is good for about one lap. See, I live in the real world, I don't feel I have to make stuff up. You know, like people who can't comprehend that a video might be just slightly biased to get more hits.
 

Nak

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exactly..... all you new BEV guys don't seem to quite get it ... yet.

inverters are NOT 100% efficient
this means that x watts have to be dumped as heat depending how many watts they are passing thru

inverter, motor, and battery cooling loops are designed to handle dumping y amount of heat from steady-state loads plus a little for bursts of acceleration. If heat is NOT dumped fast enough, component temp goes up, and software settings are programmed to clamp down, limit output, and reduce watts dumped to heat until temp recovers.

The ONLY way to increase power thruput, and not exceed temperature parameters is to improve cooling.

if you are starting at a highway speed of 80 mph, and 'constant' power is lets say 30kw on a flat road, the coolant is dumping a fair amount of heat already, and full accel will bump that over what can be dumped pretty quickly..... versus from a stop where component and coolant is at lower temps and gives you another few seconds at full power before temp hits the limits and current restrictions kick in.


..... Electric systems are THERMALLY limited, rather than fuel/air like you may be used to.
Excellent post.
 

Nak

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That, and a 4 tenths variance in 1/4 mile time can easily be accounted for by a poor launch or even timing procedures. Expecting a M3P to run an 11.5 every single time in every single type of test with different timing mechanisms, temperature, track surface, etc etc is just silly. The BMW driver even mentioned how he was fighting for traction. Running an 11.9 in this instance is completely within the realm of variance given the above. The only really definite thing is that the BMW was faster ;)
I agree with most of what you wrote. However I disagree that it's definite the BMW was faster since that seems to imply that we know this race was run with both drivers trying to win. We don't know that, and I doubt it's true. You're right, .4 is not unrealistic in a lot of cars, but in a BEV it really is. There's not much skill involved, and there is no launch control to mess up in a 3. Now, if the BMW driver has lightning quick reflexes, and the 3 driver is particularly slow, that could make up for maybe .3? and the "aero" treatments on the 3 could easily slow it down as well--as was mentioned in the video. What it really comes down to is that if they wanted to see which car was faster, the drivers would have swapped cars once to take reaction times out of the equation. Regardless, I was more or less replying to P&C's buffoonery with his " Meanwhile, the new BMW I4 M50 is already taking shits on Tesla Model 3 Ps…. " statement. Apparently, the lad can't count.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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You are the one making ridiculous claims. I made an offer, you don't want to take me up on it. We both know there's members of this forum you could talk to that live here. But no, you'd rather talk garbage than actually walk the walk, LOL. BTW, if 1/4s are such old news, why did you post the video? That's OK, I get it. You're a typical internet big talker. You can't back up your actual discussion I responded to, so you change the subject. Please continue. And yes, I understand a Stock M3P is good for about one lap. See, I live in the real world, I don't feel I have to make stuff up. You know, like people who can't comprehend that a video might be just slightly biased to get more hits.
Yes. I’m the internet big talker. Because I started with no evidence whatsoever with the claims the Tesla either wasn’t a P model, wasn’t trying to win, and then followed with an Internet invite to Portland to race. Because you running an 11.4-11.5 at PIR means no 3P could run a 12.0 anywhere, ever. Got it. Oh, wait, that wasn’t me. My follow up invite to TX ended with smilies because it was silly af, I thought that was understood.

So, continue in a “real” world where Teslas can’t run .4-.5ths off their fastest when it’s cold or SOC isn’t high or whatever, it’s your prerogative.
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