ID.4 Charging Curve: Lessons for Mach E Software Team

[engnrng]

well id4 has real tires, the mach-e is equipped with bike tires. that may be some of the feel issues?

Curious what model you drive? My CaRt1 has 60 series tires, nice and wide, look good, but they are 18 inch rims. I take curves caution marked for 50 mph at 75 and feels quite solid.

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[RedStallion]

High speed charging inevitably damages the battery pack. A flat charging curve looks strange because the battery can safely take different charging current depending on the state of charge and temperature. I would expect an optimal charging curve to be non-uniform.
The other thing, charging over 80% goes slow because of the leveling cycle. Elements in the battery pack are not uniform and end up with different SOC, so there is a risk of damaging some of them. Perhaps VW has a better battery pack with stricter tolerances, or perhaps its life span is just shorter.

 

[RedStallion]

I've been using ABRP to look at routes between my home in Michigan and places in TN and FL. Granted, I've only got the std battery, but the charge rate to 80% is a really big deal if such a trip is ever to be practical. As it is, a 45 min stop every 100-120 miles to recharge is preposterous. Those drives are long enough (10 hrs of actual driving time to TN; 19 hrs to FL). Who wants to add 3.5 - 5.5 hours of time to account for charging?

I drove from NYC to SF a few years ago and I deliberately decided not to drive more than 500 miles a day, because it wouldn't be fun. I would start each morning choosing the next hotel 500 miles away and making a reservation.
So taking that into account all you need to do is charge twice when on road. Once you'll do it at lunch anyway, no extra time loss, and second time you can stop for coffee, snacks, shopping. Then you will charge overnight or while having dinner. Not much different than a gasoline car.

 

[BadgerGreg]

I drove from NYC to SF a few years ago and I deliberately decided not to drive more than 500 miles a day, because it wouldn't be fun. I would start each morning choosing the next hotel 500 miles away and making a reservation.
So taking that into account all you need to do is charge twice when on road. Once you'll do it at lunch anyway, no extra time loss, and second time you can stop for coffee, snacks, shopping. Then you will charge overnight or while having dinner. Not much different than a gasoline car.

And hopefully the overnight charge is Level 2, which is easier on the battery.

 

[SteelMach]

We'd almost have to count on it. But traveling through Ohio, DCFC stations that kick out 150W are few, so the likelihood is that the stops will be required simply because there aren't enough locations that can recharge the battery.

I'm also planning for a ER RWD, departing at 100% SoC when I look it up. Dayton should be achievable from Detroit without stopping. After Dayton the 75 corridor is covered well down to Florida. EA does need a station in Toledo on 75 though, nobody's gonna detour onto the Turnpike and pay a toll just to charge.

 

[Mirak]

First one for sure. However we don't know if the problem is on the EA side or the Ford side. Could be either. Given Ford engineers went around the country and tested these connections, I'm thinking an update on one side or the other after some point. On the other hand, even home charging for the MME isn't nearly as smooth as you'd expect.

As for the second, the MME hits or exceeds the promised charging times. Hard to complain about that.

Given all the other bugs in the car software and FordPass, and given the difficulty in setting up Connected Services to begin with, and given that Ford is still emailing me to tell me set up Connected Services, I think there’s a problem on Ford’s end.

 

[Ma9573]

Considering I've watched several YouTube videos on DCFC with the MME, I think it's safe to say that DCFC doesn't practically work for anyone with the MME.

EV Dave had trouble, Mach-e VLOG had trouble (and just gave up), the Tesla&Chill lady gave up as well. Kyle from Out Of Spec had trouble a few times at a Wal-Mart location on his 2.5 hour livestream.

Has anybody gotten it work successfully?

I haven't even signed up for plug and charge yet since I've not been around any EA stations. I've now had 3 DC fast charge (50kw) experiences at EVGO stations and it was easy.

 

[rfrommd]

Here are my takeaways from the videos (including the 0-100 Mach E one he did a few weeks ago):

ID.4 -> 64 kWh in 38 mins, 0-80% in 38 mins
Mach-E -> 60 kWh in 38 mins, 0-80% in 50 mins

The ID.4 is a little bit faster (and can charge from 80-90 in 10 mins). Since the Mach-E at 80% is almost the same capacity as the ID.4 at 90% (give or take a kWh) the better road tripper may end up being which car has the best highway efficiency.

(This assumes that both the MME and ID.4 are equally susceptible to EA Charging Follies)

 

[BadgerGreg]

Here's my takeaways from the videos (including the 0-100 Mach E one he did a few weeks ago):

ID.4 -> 64 kWh in 38 mins, 0-80% in 38 mins
Mach-E -> 60 kWh in 38 mins, 0-80% in 50 mins

The ID.4 is a little bit faster (and can charge from 80-90 in 10 mins). Since the Mach-E at 80% is almost the same capacity as the ID.4 at 90% (give or take a kWh) the better road tripper may end up being which car has the best highway efficiency.

(This assumes that both the MME and ID.4 are equally susceptible to EA Charging Follies)

The charging speeds above are somewhat close, although the Mach E (on paper) should be significantly faster, as it's rated for 150 kW (the ID.4 is rated for 125 kW). The charging faults (stop charge errors) were glaringly obvious for the MME in the Out of Spec and Mach E Vlog videos (as well as many others I've seen). Based on the reviews I've seen so far, it appears the ID.4 doesn't suffer from the same problems.

 

[timbop]

The charging speeds above are somewhat close, although the Mach E (on paper) should be significantly faster, as it's rated for 150 kW (the ID.4 is rated for 125 kW). The charging faults (stop charge errors) were glaringly obvious for the MME in the Out of Spec and Mach E Vlog videos (as well as many others I've seen). Based on the reviews I've seen so far, it appears the ID.4 doesn't suffer from the same problems.

Right, because those problems seem to only occur with plug-n-charge which the ID.4 does not yet support. Had kyle used the EA app to initiate the charging his experience would have been very different. That's not an excuse - P&C shouldn't cause the charge faults. But, since it is a known issue I would expect him to work around it rather than allow it to totally sour his opinion of the car.

 

[BadgerGreg]

Right, because those problems seem to only occur with plug-n-charge which the ID.4 does not yet support. Had kyle used the EA app to initiate the charging his experience would have been very different.

However, other reviewers (even those using the EA app or credit card payments) were still having the charge fault errors, so I don't think it's limited to the plug-n-charge feature.

 

[ajmartineau]

The only thing that is unreasonable about the “80% cliff” is that it happens at ~75%. Because of the big buffer, it should be at 90-95%. Ford is being ultra conservative. To stay competitive, they will have to speed it up.

 

[silverelan]

The only thing that is unreasonable about the “80% cliff” is that it happens at ~75%. Because of the big buffer, it should be at 90-95%. Ford is being ultra conservative. To stay competitive, they will have to speed it up.

The charging time should be decreased for the GT simply because the range is lower. 80% of 235-250 miles is kind of painful, especially if we're talking 40-45 minutes to get there.

 

[SteelMach]

Right, because those problems seem to only occur with plug-n-charge which the ID.4 does not yet support. Had kyle used the EA app to initiate the charging his experience would have been very different. That's not an excuse - P&C shouldn't cause the charge faults. But, since it is a known issue I would expect him to work around it rather than allow it to totally sour his opinion of the car.

It's only a "known issue" for us on the forums. For new customers buying off the lot, they'll think it works, unless they visit here first. Until Ford tells people not to use Plug&Charge because it doesn't work, I think Kyle's 100% right to rely on it in his videos.

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