Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[silverelan]

The heat pump is kinda a double-edged sword. 25 miles of range is more important or many other things. The problem with the heat pump is half of the country will never use it or need it. The other half if it gets too cold it doesn't do any good anyway.

More range to equal out the loss of heating the car is a better way to help with the cold. Start adding more and more parts like Ice vehicles more things can break and repair.

A good way for ford or any manufacturer to do it is an add on if you want. The only reason I'm saying this is well.................... it's being talked about right now this way at Ford.

Kia has a $1000 winter package option for the Niro EV that includes a heat pump. Not a bad way to go, imo.

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[Nak]

The other half if it gets too cold it doesn't do any good anyway.

Not true. It's not just the heat pump, but the entire HVAC system. The heat pump and the octovalve allow one system for distributing and dispersing heat throughout the car. This allows waste heat from the motors and battery to be used to heat the cabin, much like waste heat from an ICE vehicle heats the cabin. Also, the system is more efficient at cooling the cabin over the HVAC system in the 3. Certainly not as big a difference as that seen heating the cabin.

The heat pump may be a deal, but it is in no way a huge deal. ... They will impose a smaller range penalty when driving in cool, (but not cold,) temperatures. ... so even the Model Y must fall back on resistive heating.

Not true. Please see my response in the paragraph just above. Yes, the Y may need some resistive heating, but far less than your statement suggests.

it does not do a thing but add cost and one more mechanical part that can fail.

Not true. No additional parts are added, in fact the Y has fewer HVAC parts than the 3.

 

[Nak]

Many things seem terribly easy once they've been done for the first time, like heating and cooling the motors, battery and cabin with one system.

 

[Nak]

The heat pump may be a deal, but it is in no way a huge deal. The Model Y is their only vehicle to have one

The 3 will have one shortly.

 

[mark360]

It doesn't, the system actually uses the motors as "resistive" heat to heat the fluid. This uses more energy if you are preheating the car in the winter. I posted about this and keep debunking the myth that the Model Y heat pump is some huge innovation - when in fact is adds unnecessary complexity and limited gains which are only seen under perfect conditions.

 

[Nak]

The motors for sure will have waste heat driving for any extended period of time; they are not 100% efficient, more like 80% or so. (That number is only a guess.) The other 20% will be waste heat which can be utilized to heat the cabin. I have no idea how much waste heat the battery will produce, certainly some amount down to some temperature. If the car isn't pre-conditioned prior to driving, the battery will require heating initially of course. But that's true regardless of the HVAC. If you pre-condition your battery, as the battery discharges it will produce waste heat due to the chemical reaction which produces electricity.

 

[mark360]

Exactly

 

[mark360]

The motors for sure will have waste heat driving for any extended period of time; they are not 100% efficient, more like 80% or so. (That number is only a guess.) The other 20% will be waste heat which can be utilized to heat the cabin. I have no idea how much waste heat the battery will produce, certainly some amount down to some temperature. If the car isn't pre-conditioned prior to driving, the battery will require heating initially of course. But that's true regardless of the HVAC. If you pre-condition your battery, as the battery discharges it will produce waste heat due to the chemical reaction which produces electricity.

Wrong, Tesla motors are estimated to be over 95% efficient. According to this article, they are 97% efficient

https://www.pcmag.com/news/report-t...reports, both the,an efficiency of 97 percent.

 

[Jolteon]

It's extraordinarily innovative. An automotive heat pump with no resistive heat backup. Extradordinarily compact and absolutely beautiful integration of components. Nothing else like it exists in the automotive space. That's why it's a big deal.

 

[mark360]

It's extraordinarily innovative. An automotive heat pump with no resistive heat backup. Extradordinarily compact and absolutely beautiful integration of components. Nothing else like it exists in the automotive space. That's why it's a big deal.

Again, you are completely wrong. The car sends current to the motor in a "dwell" state such that the motors are receiving current but not operating the gearbox. The fluid used to heat the cabin runs through those motors which not only takes longer to preheat but uses much more energy because a motor is not the most efficient way to heat a cabin alone and the transfer of thermal energy to fluid and then back into the air isn't efficient unless relatively speaking there is an abundances of wasted energy from the motors (being ran hard)

Gosh the ignorance on this is astounding! Heat is wasted thermal energy, so the car has to get that wasted energy from some component inside the vehicle. When the Vehicle is cold soaked, it uses resistive heating by my above explanation.

 

[efisher]

A heat pump works by moving heat from one place to another. The most common heat pump that most people are familiar with is a regular air conditioning unit. Most AC units simply pump heat from the inside of your house or car to the outside. It doesn't matter if it is hot outside, nor do you need a source of cold. (Although some AC units use water cooling these are often illegal because they waste water.) If you ever stood on the exhaust side of an AC unit than you would have felt that the air coming out of the unit is warmer than the outside air. That extra warmth is the heat being pumped from inside the house to the outside. While AC units pump heat in one direction only, there are many modern units that are reversible. that is, they can both pump warm air out, i.e. colling the inside and warming the outside or pump the warm air in, effectively warming the inside by cooling the outside.

These units can be very efficient, especially if the desired temperature difference between the inside and outside is small, (thirty degrees or so). Since they are pumping the heat and not generating the heat, they can be more energy efficient than regular heaters. This is not a problem with ice vehicles because they use waste heat from the engine to heat the car. (Ice engines waste a lot of heat which is one of the reasons EVs are more efficient.) With EVs though any energy used to heat or cool the interior is not available to move the car from point a to b. And in really cold temperatures, heaters can use a lot of energy and significantly reduce range. So, a heat pump, can reduce the range penalty imposed by turning on the heat. The problem is that as the temperature difference between what is outside and what you want inside grows heat pumps become less and less efficient and at some point, just stop working. That is why all EVs, even those equipped with a heat pump, also have a resistive heater.

 

[mark360]

Nobody is saying that the car doesn't use electricity to make heat, that would be ridiculous to claim.

What I said - and what is true - is that the Model Y does not contain a resistive heater. I'm not going to continue this conversation if people won't debate honestly.

So it just gets the heat from pumping fluid through the car ?

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