😭😭😭 POST BATTERY CONTACTOR RECALL -- FIRST JUNCTION BOX FAILURE 😭😭😭😭

[generaltso]

My car is at the dealer for the windshield, sunroof recall but due to an unfortunate incident it's going to be there a bit longer. Wondering what are the chances the dealer puts in the new part. The software is definitely there to prolong the inevitable.

That depends what your unfortunate incident was. If it was a failure of the HVBJB, you will get the new part. If the incident had nothing to do with the HVBJB, the chances of them replacing it are zero.

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[buzznwood]

there’s no way to get the new part unless your current part fails. In my experience, go do a road trip with some mountains and DCFC and it will fail.

So a standard road trip for most people heading out of the LA basin area, and plenty of other regions in the state, the country and around the world .

Most manufactures do hot weather testing in Death Valley which has plenty of elevation change from 4000ft to -300ft , so can test a vehicle on grade in some nice and toasty ambient temps. With all final testing happening during covid it makes me question the extent of that testing and if Ford dialed some of it back due to the pandemic as no modern vehicle should be troubled by the grapevine.

 

[BalsaDust]

Just returned from my dealer service center since I wanted them to do the software install instead of waiting for the OTA. I already have an appointment onThursday to have the l/r window and trim replaced that I noticed was scratched during the pre delivery inspection. The service writer who I have dealt with for the last ten years was there and said sure, we can get that done but most likely it will be here overnight. I reminded him that it was a simple update of about a half hour and he proceeded to check my vin for updates.
He quickly apologized when he saw the only update I needed was the contactor software and assured me everything will get done that day.
I asked if there had been anyone who has had a HVBJB replaced and he let me know there hasn't been any issues with the Mach-E sold through that dealer ship for anything other than the windshield/roof recall and the 12v battery issues from last year.
While I have been driving like the old man that I am, hoping to prevent any issues before the update, it does kill me when punk kids in Redeye's and Honda Civics think they just beat me off the light! Just five more days and its whoop ass time for them!

Tony

 

[DevSecOps]

...If so then that will at least give us all some factors to consider especially when traveling far from home

No and no and no !!!!

This is the attitude no one should have on this forum, and I say that nicely. We can't say "oh well I have to consider how many passengers I have, how many hills I have to go up or if I need to charge the car". That's completely unacceptable!

The car has 5 seats, cars are meant to be driven on roads, and cars are meant to be refueled. There's no consideration that should be necessary to drive the car in the designed manner and worry about anything happening.

 

[KevinS]

This is the attitude no one should have on this forum, and I say that nicely. We can't say "oh well I have to consider how many passengers I have, how many hills I have to go up or if I need to charge the car". That's completely unacceptable!

100%. The only factor a person should have to consider is battery range and when you'll need to charge, not if you can charge.

 

[jddrews]

OK, so what I'm looking for now is:
1. A nice, long uphill drive, with
2. A Ford dealer near the end of it, one with a top-notch service department, and
3. Located near good public transportation so I can go home and wait for installation of my "robust" new parts.

Yes, I'm kidding. Mostly.

Actually, those conditions exist in Portland to an extent. The elevation gain is probably only 800ft but just over the crest of I5 South past the Terwilliger curves is Landmark Ford. Not sure about “top notch” but it’d be a short limp to the dealership at least.

I’ll try Everesting the hill on a hot day and see how long it takes to achieve failure. I mean, not really, but if anyone is game… ?

 

[macchiaz-o]

I have a trip planned to Joshua Tree on the 4th and I'm a little scared to drive my SR RWD.

I took 3 adults, a dog, and ample luggage to Joshua Tree NP in my SR RWD Mach-E last summer and it went fine.

We round tripped from Phoenix. Coming from San Francisco is a longer drive but you have many charging opportunities on your primary north/south routes in California so I'd expect no issues there.

We stayed at a Residence Inn in La Quinta that has several level 2 chargers distributed around its parking lot, I think around 4-6 each of J1772 and Tesla proprietary.

It was totally fine, but in retrospect it would have been wiser to stay a little closer to the park entrance we wanted to use, like in Palm Springs (which we also visited on that trip). Find a hotel with on site charging so you can start each day with a full battery.

JTNP was the last day of our trip so we entered from the west entrance station (east of Yucca Valley) and exited from the south side, near Chiriaco Summit.

I stopped at the ChargePoint 50 kW pump in Chiriaco Summit (and ate at their diner) before continuing on to Electrify America stations for the remainder of the route to/from Phoenix.

 

[SWO]

There's a slightly less cynical way to look at it. The software allows Ford to safely and compliantly spread the true repair process out and only replace failing parts. Instead of dropping 50k batteries in ~6 months they now can spread it over potentially several years (even in the case that the failure rate is higher than we have seen so far, which is currently around 1% per year).

This assumes the new part doesn't have the same issues.

Have we confirmed the issue is isolated to the old part #? It will be very discouraging if post-25 May builds start having the same faults described in the OP.

 

[Stang68]

The car has 5 seats, cars are meant to be driven on roads, and cars are meant to be refueled. There's no consideration that should be necessary to drive the car in the designed manner and worry about anything happening.

The next OTA will activate the on-board scale and tell us if our passengers are too heavy, stressing the car and the HVBJB.

 

[gpgrim]

So I've been thinking about this contactor issue since @scoopman started this thread. Although I had a general idea of what a contactor did, and how it operated, I was curious about specifics, and thus the possible failure modes.

For example, if @scoopman's drive contactors were closed and stably delivering power, why would they fail in the middle of the Grapevine, and in particular, on a descent where the motor current draw was minimal for the speed?

From the Munro vids, it's pretty clear there are 4/3 contactors depending on your motor count. I would assume this means the non-motor contactors are for the charge and low volt circuits that connect to the HVB pack. Given this, I suspect the issue causing all the grief to date, has to do with the contactor for the low volt/12V battery circuit. Why this contactor? Because it is doing far more switching than the others, as well as switching in flight, c.f. @scoopman's bootleg Blippi vid, and is consistent with all the stories of 12V batt failure we've been reading about for 18 months now. In fact, as I write this, it dawned on me that the low volt circuit contactor *must never* sleep.

Since the failure modes include both "open" and "close" failures, it sounds to me like it's not a high voltage contact issue, but more likely a low voltage control circuit failure caused by the back emf of the coil generating a high voltage transient and taking out some key element, probably potted in the module, or on the HVBJB. This could explain why they tried a software change to mitigate, in addition to altering the controls systems handling of the failure. This is all speculation, of course, but entertaining (to me) nonetheless, at least right up until my beast is bricked.

If your interested in understanding how contactors work and the difference between that and a relay, I found this youtube video useful. The implementation in the MME is obviously different, since the circuits are all DC, but nonetheless the principals are the same.

 

[MajorFrostbyte]

Actually, those conditions exist in Portland to an extent. The elevation gain is probably only 800ft but just over the crest of I5 South past the Terwilliger curves is Landmark Ford. Not sure about “top notch” but it’d be a short limp to the dealership at least.

I’ll try Everesting the hill on a hot day and see how long it takes to achieve failure. I mean, not really, but if anyone is game… ?

I will be picking up my Mach-E GT in one month's time in Portland and then driving it home to Missoula. The first week of August (aka "Dog Days"). Through eastern Oregon and Washington and then over both Fourth of July Pass in Idaho, and Lookout Pass, that divides Idaho and Montana. There will be three charging stops along the way. The chances of a brand new part reaching the failing point seems unlikely, but this whole situation will certainly add an interesting element to the trip home.

 

[phil]

it is an interesting question if lowering any regen as much as possible might reduce thermal and electrical loads. I might do this when descending in the future.

Do you think that will be necessary in the future, when you have your new, "robust" parts?

That would be very sad.

 

[rcechinel]

@scoopman, sorry if you mentioned already, but was there any difference in the charging curve while DCFCing after the new software?

 

[scoopman]

This assumes the new part doesn't have the same issues.

Have we confirmed the issue is isolated to the old part #? It will be very discouraging if post-25 May builds start having the same faults described in the OP.

no confirmation but I’m hoping to get a photo of the part for us to see what is different when it arrives

look I’m driving the same route back hopefully with the same load so we’ll see what happens. If this fails one more time it is lemon law time and time for me to move on to something else.

 

[scoopman]

@scoopman, sorry if you mentioned already, but was there any difference in the charging curve while DCFCing after the new software?

Seemed a little thermal throttle at the beginning of the charge but I had a lot going on so wasn’t totally focused on this. I thought my car operated basically the same until it crapped out.

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