Did I really get extended range battery?

[Kmp14]

So this might be the dumbest question of all time. I've had my new 2023 premium all-wheel drive extended range for a little over a week. I'm in the Chicago area, I know it's cold, I know I have to get used to the range loss due to cold, but I still feel like I'm not getting what I should out of the extended range battery. I just did a test. I was at 43%, and charged to 60%. I felt that should have resulted in about 15 kWh being added but when it got to 60%, the Fordpass app said 12 kWh we're added for the session. My logic might be wrong, but I added 17% (43% to 60%) so I thought the battery would have taken in about 15 kWh (91 x .17 = 15), adding 17%, but only 12 kWh tells me that my battery is 68 kWh (58 * .17 = 12).

My sticker says I got the 91 kWh usable battery, and I even have the Mach–Ex4 badge on the side, but the math seems to be indicating otherwise.

To add the confusion, my juicebox said that the same session did use a bit over 15 kWh, so I'm hoping that is the accurate number. Hopefully someone can help clarify this nonsense. I'm really hoping I got the ex battery and I don't have to deal with Ford and try to convince them I didn't!

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[MillieChliette]

Get ready for some hazing. You said the meme words.

Search: "wrong battery" with the quotes

 

[devmach-e]

Several things:

1) Battery capacity is reduced when it gets colder. The 91 kWh usable amount is at a specific temperature, like 78 degrees.

2) FordPass does rounding/truncating. 43% to 60% might’ve actually been 43.1% to 60.9%. A better test would be to do a 20% to 80% charge session.

3) Your EVSE reports the amount the amount of kWh pulled from the wall. That figure doesn’t represent how much made it in into the battery. Some of the power drawn from the wall was used to run various systems like warming/cooling the battery. And then there is the fact that the internal charger is only about 90% efficient. I.e, for every 1 kWh that goes into the battery, 1.1 kWh wa drawn from the wall..

I doubt you got the wrong size battery.

 

[Kmp14]

Get ready for some hazing. You said the meme words.

Search: "wrong battery" with the quotes

Wow, I do feel like an idiot. And I really tried to search for this but didn't think of searching for "wrong battery".? That being said, I'm basing this on math, not range, but I guess I do deserve some harassment for sure.

Funny thing is, I was all prepared for the range loss and was laughing at the other threads about it.

I still have to wonder though, 12 kWh added, resulting in 17% increase does calculate to a total of a 68 kWh battery. Maths!

 

[Socalsp3]

You got the wrong battery. People find that out all the time in the winter.

 

[Kmp14]

Several things:

1) Battery capacity is reduced when it gets colder. The 91 kWh usable amount is at a specific temperature, like 78 degrees.

2) FordPass does rounding/truncating. 43% to 60% might’ve actually been 43.1% to 60.9%. A better test would be to do a 20% to 80% charge session.

3) Your EVSE reports the amount the amount of kWh pulled from the wall. That figure doesn’t represent how much made it in into the battery. Some of the power drawn from the wall was used to run various systems like warming/cooling the battery. And then there is the fact that the internal charger is only about 90% efficient. I.e, for every 1 kWh that goes into the battery, 1.1 kWh wa drawn from the wall..

I doubt you got the wrong size battery.

Thanks for a fair answer to this question.

 

[Kmp14]

Okay, so I think I understand a little better. I was absolutely prepared for reduced range in the cold. What I didn't understand was that not only is the range reduced but that is a direct result of battery CAPACITY being reduced? In other words a 91 kWh battery can't actually store that much when it's cold?

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

I’m not even going to be mean because you tried math, which is a rarity these days. And because you immediately saw your mistake when pointed toward other “wrong battery” threads.
I am going to add, that as a simple country murse I like to keep things simple. The part a lot of newbs forget is that the battery is more about chemistry than electricity. Solvents and solutes. Middle school chemistry taught that a cold solutes can’t hold as much solvent as warm ones. Taking a warm glass of water and stirring in some salt results in the salt all dissolving into the water. Take a cold glass of water and add the same amount of salt, you’ll end up with some of the salt not dissolving and just sitting in the bottom of the glass. Also the reason you can’t fast charge as quickly when the battery is almost full. The first teaspoon of salt into a warm glass dissolved quickly. By the 5th teaspoon it takes a while, and some serious stirring, before the salt dissolves.

 

[generaltso]

not only is the range reduced but that is a direct result of battery CAPACITY being reduced? In other words a 91 kWh battery can't actually store that much when it's cold?

Bingo. The fact that you also use some of the available energy for heat only compounds the problem.

 

[connoisseurr]

@RickMachE another one.

 

[RickMachE]

12/15 - 1 = 20% loss from wall to car, and part of that is heating battery.

As stated, 43% may be 43.44, and 60 may be 59.5. That is 16%, or 14.56kWh.

12kWh added may be 12.44.

12.44/14.56 - 1 = 14.5% loss, which is right on the money.

 

[Kmp14]

I’m not even going to be mean because you tried math, which is a rarity these days. And because you immediately saw your mistake when pointed toward other “wrong battery” threads.
I am going to add, that as a simple country murse I like to keep things simple. The part a lot of newbs forget is that the battery is more about chemistry than electricity. Solvents and solutes. Middle school chemistry taught that a cold solutes can’t hold as much solvent as warm ones. Taking a warm glass of water and stirring in some salt results in the salt all dissolving into the water. Take a cold glass of water and add the same amount of salt, you’ll end up with some of the salt not dissolving and just sitting in the bottom of the glass. Also the reason you can’t fast charge as quickly when the battery is almost full. The first teaspoon of salt into a warm glass dissolved quickly. By the 5th teaspoon it takes a while, and some serious stirring, before the salt dissolves.

Thanks so much for that excellent response. I really thought I had scoured these forums enough to not ask the really dumb question, yet I did... But I really learned something, so as embarrassing as it is, it is worth it. Thanks again everyone for not hitting me too hard (yet).

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

Yeah the capacity loss in the cold is not intuitive. And actually, you don’t “lose” it. It comes back when the battery warms up. What’s actually happening is this: when the battery is cold, at lower capacities it can’t deliver as much current. At some low temp, the amount of current it can provide the motor is too low, so the car defines this as 0%. (also why maximum acceleration is reduced when your battery is cold).

 

[L4z3rUsLOng]

Do you remember the DieHard battery cold cranking commercials? Same principle. I would monitor the miles per KWH number and average. Your optimal target is 3.1 miles per kilowatt hour. I have been as low as 2.0 due to a heavy foot and use of the eHeater.

It can be a bit of a shock, mileage does change on an ICE too, but not quite as drastically.

 

[mkhuffman]

By the way, you seem technically inclined enough to appreciate analyzing more data. I recommend you get an OBDII scanner and the Car Scanner app. You can measure all kinds of things including true charge level and kWh capacity to empty.

The statistic I have been monitoring lately is HVB state of health (SOH). Mine has dropped a lot over the past 8 months and I don't know if it is a real drop, or not. But at least there is data to use if I think there is a problem that the dealer should look at.

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