NHTSA investigating 2022 Mach-E HVBJB recall (high voltage battery main contactors)

[kennethjk]

The problem is that, even if the NHTSA forced them to replace them, the REPLACEMENTS are still failing from time to time. That's what this latest investigation is about.

True, but the latest more robust part that isn’t really that robust is more robust than the part I have .

I think that makes sense , LOL

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[Blue highway]

I think they would have done a real recall if they really knew how to fix this problem, they don’t

I think this is solvable with a re-designed Relay... as evidence, the Lightning which draws more current than the MME, does not have a problem here.

It looks to me like a cost and labor issue... if the 21 and 22s all came in at once, there are simply not enough people qualified to drop the battery and do the work in any reasonable amount of time.... and ~$1-$2k hit per car is what they are trying to spread out time wise or minimize

 

[kennethjk]

I think this is solvable with a re-designed Relay... as evidence, the Lightning which draws more current than the MME does not have a problem here.

It looks to me like a cost and labor issue... if the 21 and 22s all came in at once, there are simply not enough people qualified to drop the battery and do the work in any reasonable amount of time.... and ~$1-$2k hit per car is what they are trying to spread out time wise or minimize

Why are new cars still failing, some people have had units replaced several times.

I don’t think they have a full handle on it yet.

maybe you’re right and it’s money, but in the meantime they have lost me as a future customer , what’s that cost? What do I say to people who ask me, should I buy this car. There is a cost to that also.

 

[buzznwood]

I think this is solvable with a re-designed Relay... as evidence, the Lightning which draws more current than the MME does not have a problem here.

It looks to me like a cost and labor issue... if the 21 and 22s all came in at once, there are simply not enough people qualified to drop the battery and do the work in any reasonable amount of time.... and ~$1-$2k hit per car is what they are trying to spread out time wise or minimize

It has always been about cost or rather the typical Ford MO of trying to get away with doing the least amount possible and what happens every few years when Ford lets the accountants overrule the engineers despite it ending up costing them more in the long run.

There is reason why Ford never learns from past mistakes and is always hovering at or near the top of the table when it comes to recall costs. Every few years you get a small blip where things are done correctly but it doesn't last long before Ford reverts back to type.

Everyone with a working brain new this software 'fix' was garbage and would need to be rectified later down the line, with the supposedly beefier part also failing it is either a true mystery to Ford what is going on (not a good look) or the revised part was also specified by an accountant.

Hopefully this new investigation will force Ford to fix this once and for all and in a timely manor before this turns into becoming the mach-e version of powershift debacle. Dealer lots are already starting to clog up with mach-e that are not shifting and once the general populous gets wind of another failed Ford recall more people are going to walk on by.

 

[KevinS]

I think they would have done a real recall if they really knew how to fix this problem, they don’t

No doubt a buy-time thing... they were scrambling, just like GM was with the battery fires. Getting the car to limited power so it could be limped to a dealer was marginally better than just getting stranded without warning.

Time has shown that what was done last year is an imperfect stopgap that now needs to be rectified by a mandatory recall if it won't be performed voluntarily.

 

[Just Lurking]

I think that is why engineering was so eager to have me run my routes with the data tracker. They wanted to see my exact conditions and roads that lead to failures of even the revised parts.

I'm glad Ford is taking this seriously, though I question how long it's taking. If you don't mind my asking, how long / how many runs did you collect data for them before you sold your MME? (I think I saw in another thread that you switched to a Model Y, hopefully I didn't misread.)

 

[azerik]

I think they would have done a real recall if they really knew how to fix this problem, they don’t

But they do. They know they need to spend a BUNCH of money and time to fix it. So they avoid it.

I don’t think they have a full handle on it yet.

They don't have a handle on how to fix it as cheap as possible. Again. Ford isn't in the biz of making the world a better place. Everything is profit or a way to strike profit from the bottom line.

 

[heisnuts]

I'm glad Ford is taking this seriously, though I question how long it's taking. If you don't mind my asking, how long / how many runs did you collect data for them before you sold your MME? (I think I saw in another thread that you switched to a Model Y, hopefully I didn't misread.)

I spent 7 hours and 300 miles in one day out on my usual back road routes (so all the data would be stored properly and not overwritten). I started at 100%, from 20% to 80% DCFC and then kept going until I was down around 30% (and then charged back up to 50% before turning it in the next day).

You were close... I switched from the MME Premium 4X to a Model 3 Performance. So far, I have been surprised on how much I like the M3P (I am currently just over 3,400 miles now). The supercharger network is a game changer. I have about 1,000 miles of road trips on it and the experience is night and day better vs EA. The one service visit I had with Tesla was also night and day better than my Ford dealer experiences. I plan on updating my M3P thread as I rack up more country miles.

 

[kennethjk]

But they do. They know they need to spend a BUNCH of money and time to fix it. So they avoid it.


They don't have a handle on how to fix it as cheap as possible. Again. Ford isn't in the biz of making the world a better place. Everything is profit or a way to strike profit from the bottom line.

Makes no sense. So they know how to fix it and won’t replace the bad part with a better part and keep having replace replacements , that’s costing money. or it’s way more than just 1 part, they have to replace an entire electrical system?

 

[Secret Sauce]

I think they would have done a real recall if they really knew how to fix this problem, they don’t

Maybe, but every EV must have a similar system, so a fix can't be that hard to figure out.

 

[kennethjk]

Maybe, but every EV must have a similar system, so a fix can't be that hard to figure out.

You would think so but they have yet to prove it

 

[kodiakng]

folks that are hanging their hopes on NHTSA resolving product merchantability and fitness issues around the HVBJB failures are going to be sorely disappointed.

the "S" in NHTSA stand for safety (not product liability) and the key sentence in their notice is:

An overheated contactor that opens while driving may result in an immediate loss of motive power without re-engagement, increasing the risk of a crash.

also notice that there are only 12 "complaints" in the report summary. no other specific report types (crash/fire, injuries, etc) but 44 "others" which are nebulous "Early Warning Reporting Field Reports". the lack of actual crashes, fires, and injuries is good in general but also shows it may not be a "safety" issue that will go as far as requiring physical fix or replacement.

so, they will be investigating the safety aspects and determine next steps if warranted. we may never see the details.

if y'all would send in actual documented complaints they would have more to go on. hate to break it to you but complaining on MachEForum doesn't count. ?

 

[mach-ebert]

folks that are hanging their hopes on NHTSA resolving product merchantability and fitness issues around the HVBJB failures are going to be sorely disappointed.

the "S" in NHTSA stand for safety (not product liability) and the key sentence in their notice is:


also notice that there are only 12 "complaints" in the report summary. no other specific report types (crash/fire, injuries, etc) but 44 "others" which are nebulous "Early Warning Reporting Field Reports". the lack of actual crashes, fires, and injuries is good in general but also shows it may not be a "safety" issue that will go as far as requiring physical fix or replacement.

so, they will be investigating the safety aspects and determine next steps if warranted. we may never see the details.

if y'all would send in actual documented complaints they would have more to go on. hate to break it to you but complaining on MachEForum doesn't count. ?

But internet....

 

[scoopman]

I just hope Ford gets off of their butts and re-revises the part. The “more robust” part obviously isn’t robust enough based off of what we’ve seen from @scoopman @heisnuts and several others who either have cars produced after the new part was phased in or had new parts installed. ?‍?

I was contacted by NHTSA today, and I re-sent the information I sent in to their investigators documenting what occurred to my vehicle two days after the recall software was placed on my vehicle.

It's a shame NHTSA was not able to understand what most of us on this forum have realized -- that Ford was able to weasel out of fixing a pretty serious safety product defect by masking it as a "software update." I hope that finally, through NHTSA investigation or the inevitable lawsuits, Ford will be forced to more-thoroughly redesign and replace this defective design.

Say what you want about forums magnifying problem probability, the failure rate of the original junction box and the revised part has gotta be a substantial warranty expense issue for the Mach-E program -- and a potential legal liability for them.

 

[ARK]

I think this is solvable with a re-designed Relay... as evidence, the Lightning which draws more current than the MME, does not have a problem here.

It looks to me like a cost and labor issue... if the 21 and 22s all came in at once, there are simply not enough people qualified to drop the battery and do the work in any reasonable amount of time.... and ~$1-$2k hit per car is what they are trying to spread out time wise or minimize

I thought this might have been a goal with the software, to sort of slowly trickle everyone in rather than do an immediate recall for everyone all at once, but even if that was a goal, it has apparently been ineffective because (1) some SSN failures are apparently occurring quite soon after SVS first appears, and (2) even with a totally fresh HVBJB that has had the new software for its entire existence, this failure keeps happening.

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