DC Fast Charging is always a disappointment.

[DevSecOps]

My mistake, I was using Supercharger as a general term. I haven’t used the Tesla Superchargers yet. She’ll Recharge maxes out at 70. EA is a crap shoot to say the least. At Sams in the Upstate one got 70, the other 45, and another 102, and the fourth was broken. All different vehicles and we all moved around to see which was better and each car was the same. It was my MME GTPE, VW, Audi, and a new Lucid. They all sucked. When I first bought the car in June 22 I would reliably get 150 traveling across the state at EA stations, that’s why I bought the car because I travel a lot for work. Now the same EA stations are lucky to get 50 and I can’t use it to travel for work now.

There's many different brands of chargers and a lot of people don't understand why they see different numbers, or get different results, on different brands/units. So let me explain a little bit what that's about:

If you use a DC kW calculator like this one you can input values to figure out what the charge station is capable of.

Let's take a Chargepoint "Express Plus" DCFC unit as an example. The datasheet can be found here. The charger will have a sticker on the front that says "200kW". Being an MME owner we will immediately think "yippie! Fast charger here we come". But if we take the numbers on the 200kW charger we see that the max amps delivered is 200A and up to 1000v on the "option 1" stations. We know that the MME will charge at a max of about 360v and since the station has a max of 200A, we do that math using the calculator. We get a max charge rate of 72kW (sad face - we thought we would get at least the 150kW).

My point here is that you really need to understand the basic math around how we get kW. Yes the 200kW charger will deliver 200kW to a car that can accept 1000v, but the MME can't. It's deceptive.

It doesn't mean they are broken. It doesn't mean they are derating you. Lastly, you can't compare the MME to other modern cars, the Mach E has one of the worst charge curves of any modern EV.

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[AdamSNP]

There's many different brands of chargers and a lot of people don't understand why they see different numbers, or get different results, on different brands/units. So let me explain a little bit what that's about:

If you use a DC kW calculator like this one you can input values to figure out what the charge station is capable of.

Let's take a Chargepoint "Express Plus" DCFC unit as an example. The datasheet can be found here. The charger will have a sticker on the front that says "200kW". Being an MME owner we will immediately think "yippie! Fast charger here we come". But if we take the numbers on the 200kW charger we see that the max amps delivered is 200A and up to 1000v on the "option 1" stations. We know that the MME will charge at a max of about 360v and since the station has a max of 200A, we do that math using the calculator. We get a max charge rate of 72kW (sad face - we thought we would get at least the 150kW).

My point here is that you really need to understand the basic math around how we get kW. Yes the 200kW charger will deliver 200kW to a car that can accept 1000v, but the MME can't. It's deceptive.

It doesn't mean they are broken. It doesn't mean they are derating you. Lastly, you can't compare the MME to other modern cars, the Mach E has one of the worst charge curves of any modern EV.

That’s makes a lot of sense and explains a lot. However, it still doesn’t explain the reason for the decrease at the same charge stations that were previously up as high as a steady 150. It’s as if they are governing them back now.

 

[ADDZ71]

My mistake, I was using Supercharger as a general term. I haven’t used the Tesla Superchargers yet. She’ll Recharge maxes out at 70. EA is a crap shoot to say the least. At Sams in the Upstate one got 70, the other 45, and another 102, and the fourth was broken. All different vehicles and we all moved around to see which was better and each car was the same. It was my MME GTPE, VW, Audi, and a new Lucid. They all sucked. When I first bought the car in June 22 I would reliably get 150 traveling across the state at EA stations, that’s why I bought the car because I travel a lot for work. Now the same EA stations are lucky to get 50 and I can’t use it to travel for work now.

There is a Shell Recharge unit (pretty new < 1 year) in Fountain Inn that I have found to be good (better than the EA at Woodruff). Other than that I-85 is pretty weak. I live in Brevard, work in Charlotte and go to Columbia frequently so I have experienced your pain.

 

[Mirak]

that’s why I bought the car because I travel a lot for work.

Ouch.

 

[DevSecOps]

That’s makes a lot of sense and explains a lot. However, it still doesn’t explain the reason for the decrease at the same charge stations that were previously up as high as a steady 150. It’s as if they are governing them back now.

There could be issues with them for sure. Some units also work on battery storage so that they can recharge the batteries using a lower power draw. It could be the car depending on the SOC. So there's a number of variables.

The Mach E will not sustain 150-160 for more than about 3-4 minutes. It will then drop to 300A, which is around 110kW, for another 5-7 minutes before slowly going to about 80kW and then tanking at 80% SOC.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

I assume you are talking about DCFC stations like EA, Charge Point, EVGO, etc.? I have a feeling as soon as you used the term Supercharger, people were thinking a Tesla Supercharger using the magic dock adapter.

Supercharger has become the new Kleenex. Just go with it. Nobody likes the guy that says “I believe you mean tissue. Kleenex is a brand name.”

 

[ChasingCoral]

That’s makes a lot of sense and explains a lot. However, it still doesn’t explain the reason for the decrease at the same charge stations that were previously up as high as a steady 150. It’s as if they are governing them back now.

Some chargers will display what the vehicle is requesting as well as what the charger is delivering. This is important information that the Mach E needs to show on its screen. In a recent meeting with Ford charging engineers, we (a group of Mach E and Lightning drivers) strongly made the point that Ford BEVs need to display much more information about the charging experience. Without that, you don’t know if the problem is the vehicle requesting a low charge rate or the charger failing to deliver what is requested.

What the vehicle request from the charger can vary based on whether the car is preconditioned and other system conditions. If you want to maximize your charge rate, be sure to use the Ford Navigation to route you to the charger. Doing so will precondition the battery to optimize DC fast charging. Navigating there with any other software will not precondition your battery.

What the charger will provide is also dependent on multiple factors. In particular, many of the EA chargers are having equipment issues that will result in a slow charging session. EA also uses at least three different equipment supplies for its east coast sites. Signet, ABB, and SK Signet chargers will perform differently. There is a panel on the side that lists the equipment provider. Also, watch the screen for any messages that the charger may be de-rated due to equipment issues.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Supercharger has become the new Kleenex. Just go with it. Nobody likes the guy that says “I believe you mean tissue. Kleenex is a brand name.”

Not so. Superchargers are highly reliable. EA chargers not so much.

 

[Maquis]

Some chargers will display what the vehicle is requesting as well as what the charger is delivering. This is important information that the Mach E needs to show on its screen. In a recent meeting with Ford charging engineers, we (a group of Mach E and Lightning drivers) strongly made the point that Ford BEVs need to display much more information about the charging experience. Without that, you don’t know if the problem is the vehicle requesting a low charge rate or the charger failing to deliver what is requested.

What the vehicle request from the charger can vary based on whether the car is preconditioned and other system conditions. If you want to maximize your charge rate, be sure to use the Ford Navigation to route you to the charger. Doing so will precondition the battery to optimize DC fast charging. Navigating there with any other software will not precondition your battery.

What the charger will provide is also dependent on multiple factors. In particular, many of the EA chargers are having equipment issues that will result in a slow charging session. EA also uses at least three different equipment supplies for its east coast sites. Signet, ABB, and SK Signet chargers will perform differently. There is a panel on the side that lists the equipment provider. Also, watch the screen for any messages that the charger may be de-rated due to equipment issues.

Did Ford seem receptive to that suggestion?
I can see them not wanting to do that in order to avoid warranty costs. Similar to the L2 charge rate throttling debacle.

 

[AdamSNP]

There is a Shell Recharge unit (pretty new < 1 year) in Fountain Inn that I have found to be good (better than the EA at Woodruff). Other than that I-85 is pretty weak. I live in Brevard, work in Charlotte and go to Columbia frequently so I have experienced your pain.

Cannot get over 70 there on either one. Then, Slowly trickles down to 40.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Did Ford seem receptive to that suggestion?
I can see them not wanting to do that in order to avoid warranty costs. Similar to the L2 charge rate throttling debacle.

They were very receptive and could see that there was almost universal agreement across the group that this was needed. How willing and likely they are to deliver it is another matter. At least they know drivers want more information.

BTW, I also heard that more information is planned for the Charge Assist screens. It was rolled out with a display of the charger’s capability as a placeholder. Hopefully this is a place where actual charging rate will be displayed in the future.

 

[A-A-Ron]

my experience at EA is exactly the same as OP's. charging stops take ~1 hour to go from 20% to 80%, the highest speed for more than a few seconds is ~77kwh, most of the time is spent at 40 in the winter, 50 in the summer. i've plugged in from as low as 8%, never any difference, and i'm excluding all the times the station itself is broken and stuck at 30kwh

i don't do roadtrips often so i don't complain about it much, but the charge times are at least 2x what is advertised

I'm starting to think the purpose of Electrify America is to make us regret basically killing VW's diesel program in America

 

[tuminatr]

We hit 160 kW at an EVgo 350kW fast charger in Massachusetts this afternoon, arriving at around 23% SoC and navigating via Ford's built on navigation. We used a magic dock at the Batavia, NY, Tesla superchargers, and peaked at 122 kW.

I think the key here is using the built in navigation. If your car is up to date it preconditions the battery when you set a charger as your destination. Those using car play or Android Auto for navigation to a charger won't arrive preconditioned to charge

 

[DevSecOps]

Cannot get over 70 there on either one. Then, Slowly trickles down to 40.

I looked up that location on plug share. I'm pretty sure those are BTC power combo units based on the cocked handle receivers. Those are limited to 200A on the CCS1 side. 200A @ 360V = 72kW.

Again, you can't just look at the label. It's deceptive

Next time you go to a charger look for the nameplate rating which is normally a silver plate on the lower back or side. It will tell you the manufacturer and rated amps.

 

[tfitzgex]

I had to stop in Lacy washington to charge at an EA. I tried multiple chargers and couldn't get faster than 35KW. I ended up getting enough to go to the next DCFC which was an EVGo, There I was able to get 130. EA is the worst...

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