Plug in to Maintain 12V Battery

[mkhuffman]

Agree. They were probably worried that setting the threshold higher would cause too many wake-up/recharge events, causing more cycles on the 12V battery and draining the HVB. The whole “avoid phantom drain” thing is viewed as a big deal in their engineering decisions.

Personally I would set it to recharge at 60% up to 90%. That would be better for the 12V, but would drain the HVB more often. Unlike the Ford engineers, it’s not a big deal to me if the HVB loses 1% a week from maintaining the 12V battery. I’d rather keep the 12V topped up than waiting for it to get all the way down to 40% before recharging.

Vampire drain is a big complaint on the Rivian forum. You park the truck and turn it off, and it still can lose 1-2% per day doing nothing but sitting there. It used to be worse. You leave your truck at the airport for two weeks and the HVB might be dead when you get back. That won't happen in the MME.

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[Mach-Lee]

Vampire drain is a big complaint on the Rivian forum. You park the truck and turn it off, and it still can lose 1-2% per day doing nothing but sitting there. It used to be worse. You leave your truck at the airport for two weeks and the HVB might be dead when you get back. That won't happen in the MME.

Yeah, Rivian has the totally opposite attitude about phantom drain vs. Ford. They’re like “we need to keep all the computers going 24/7 so the car instantly boots up and provides a fast entry/start experience” and “who cares if it drains 2% per day”. Ford is like “2% per month is way too much, the customers will hate that more than a slow UI that takes 30 seconds to become usable”.

I think they both could settle on a happy medium of 1-2% drain per week. Rivian needs to shut more things down, and Ford needs to use more energy to maintain the 12V battery and HVB temperature.

 

[kodiakng]

Because they know what they’re doing??‍

we can shut down the forum now and OTAs are no longer needed - ford knows what they're doing.

 

[RickMachE]

The problem with the battery charging methodology is that whoever developed it didn't talk to the update people, so that updates don't fail because the battery is at 60%...

 

[sgriffin130]

I had an always on dash cam for 2 years in the car and never had an issue. The big battery would top off the small every once in a while, but that's what it's supposed to do.

I also have a dash cam(Thinkware 1000) hardwired with a battery pack, radar module, front and back cameras and have never had an issue. I drive about 60 miles/week

 

[Teslaeata]

The problem with the battery charging methodology is that whoever developed it didn't talk to the update people, so that updates don't fail because the battery is at 60%...

Ford work with their tier 1 OEMs including AGM (not lead acid because we don’t have lead acid) battery manufacturers in determining battery technology and management.

I really think all this unnecessarily worries some readers.

 

[RickMachE]

Ford work with their tier 1 OEMs including AGM (not lead acid because we don’t have lead acid) battery manufacturers in determining battery technology and management.

I really think all this unnecessarily worries some readers.

OTA updates fail, repeatedly, because LVB SOC is too low.
Ford's algorithm to charge the LVB is a big factor in this failure.

One would think that they would work together so that when an update downloads, the LVB is then charged to an acceptable level for the update to then be successfully applied.

I had an update fail many, many times on my Lightning before I finally charged the LVB separately to get it high enough.

 

[generaltso]

Ford work with their tier 1 OEMs including AGM (not lead acid because we don’t have lead acid) battery manufacturers in determining battery technology and management.

AGM batteries are still lead-acid.

 

[Mach1E]

Ford work with their tier 1 OEMs including AGM (not lead acid because we don’t have lead acid) battery manufacturers in determining battery technology and management.

I really think all this unnecessarily worries some readers.

Nah, it’s the threads about dead 12v and the PITA it is when it happens that worry people-

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/completely-dead.23272/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/12v-not-dead-enough.30655/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/electrical-system-drain-error-message-no-tsbs.28414/

 

[DK922]

Yes and yes. Apparently a lot of retired and WFH people own this car, and don't even drive 20 miles per week, so in those use cases the 12V will become low from lack of driving and charging hours.

It is best to keep the 12V around 90% charged, charging to 100% all the time can put extra stress on the plates and cause accelerated grid corrosion. Cycling lead acid batteries also contributes to their demise. With normal use the 12V will typically be around 70-90% SoC. Things could be programmed a little bit better to start the recharge process sooner before a load shed occurs ("System off to save battery"), that way the customer doesn't notice.

There is no way to set the charge level for the 12v battery..

 

[Mach-Lee]

There is no way to set the charge level for the 12v battery..

Not really. There’s a target SoC parameter in the BCM I believe, and that’s set to 90% already. So if the car is on, it tries to charge it to at least 90%. Problem is, the car might not be on long enough to reach 90%, or it might still drain down too far when the car is off even if it does make it to 90% while on.

 

[Mach1E]

And another probably dead 12v battery thread today-
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/car-completely-died-on-me-about-an-hour-ago.31370/

 

[Teslaeata]

AGM batteries are still lead-acid.

Yes but if you fancy a boiled egg for breakfast you wouldn’t ask for poached egg??‍

A lightening is not an MME and will perform differently in very many respects by design and construction.

You may be right that an AGM is a lead acid battery of sorts but is not a true lead acid battery in the sense it is wet acid, an AGM is an advanced lead acid battery with absorbent matting instead of wet acid so should not be confused, referenced or treated just as a lead acid battery.

While regular lead acid batteries need a topping charge every six months to prevent the buildup of sulfation, AGM batteries are less prone to sulfation and can sit in storage for longer before a charge becomes necessary. The battery stands up well to low temperatures and has a low self-discharge.

So, if you refer to an AGM as lead acid battery and treat them the same is not right.

Frightening people into overthinking or macro managing something, LV battery management, IMO risks unnecessarily spoiling their enjoyment of the ‘Stang and introducing worries additional to those which the anti-EV league and ICE-age man propagandists peddle.

Also, not really sure what the fixation on OTAs are, I find they come when they come and if it means waiting until the stars align and ‘Stangy has decided to charge LV when an OTA is ready then it happens then, or am I not as demanding an owner than I should be??‍

All great discussion points, though?

You just gotta love the ‘Stang and all its owners’ idiosyncrasies, opinions and theories which are sometime amusing, often entertaining, nearly always educational and seldom in bad humour with ill-intent.

?

 

[Teslaeata]

Nah, it’s the threads about dead 12v and the PITA it is when it happens that worry people-

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/completely-dead.23272/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/12v-not-dead-enough.30655/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/electrical-system-drain-error-message-no-tsbs.28414/

……….out of c200,000 cars produced, failures at almost pandemic proportions, it’s time to panic, then, folks ?

 

[Teslaeata]

And another probably dead 12v battery thread today-
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/car-completely-died-on-me-about-an-hour-ago.31370/

OMG , now 4 in 200,000, the end of the world is nigh ????

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