Lectron NACS to CCS Adapter

[kltye]

A 3rd party adapter will probably work fine on most public chargers (such as a ChargePoint with a NACS cable), but do not expect them to work on Tesla Superchargers because Tesla likes to aggressively control hardware. They will not allow anything they didn’t make or certify to work on a Supercharger. As far as I’m concerned, only the Ford supplied NACS adapter will work on Tesla Superchargers, nothing else.

Wait, so you're implying the 1st-party Tesla adapter will have some smarts in it to identify itself to the charger? Because I'm pretty sure that's the only way Tesla would be able to limit which adapter is allowed to be used with their nozzle.

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[AKgrampy]

earlier in that same press release was the following:



within the context and timing of the announcement (feb 23, 2023, two weeks after the first set of magic docks had gone live) it would appear the tesla portion is all private dollars on tesla's part. the section where tesla's portion is described is the same as where all of the other charging networks announced expansion plans using private dollars or competing for NEVI funds. most of those announcements were aspirational and won't deliver results anywhere close to the dates noted (i.e. 1920 ford dealerships with 2-ports by jan 2024).

Our NEVI funding is small compared to many states but 4 of the 9 approved locations are Tesla.

 

[kodiakng]

Our NEVI funding is small compared to many states but 4 of the 9 approved locations are Tesla.

i expect tesla will win quite a few locations in other states' NEVI process as well.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Wait, so you're implying the 1st-party Tesla adapter will have some smarts in it to identify itself to the charger? Because I'm pretty sure that's the only way Tesla would be able to limit which adapter is allowed to be used with their nozzle.

Yes.

 

[bbulkow]

Yes.

It's not impossible, I'm going to be a little surprised if not only the car identifies itself as it does today, but also every cable and connector on the way is forced to identify itself and can do it in a way a chinese company can't reverse engineer in a hot millisecond, and any attempting-to-be-transparent cable in the middle can be identified as non-conforming.

I think you need a challenge response system with a secret like an EMV card uses, and you'd need every unit to have a random high quality secret, and that secret recorded before the adapter leaves the factory, and those secrets transmitted to Tesla. And you'd need some form of something like an impedance test across multiple frequencies to see if there's an extra bridging connector in the way that doesn't report itself.

You also need the Tesla network to open an antifraud operation, because (like credit cards) you'd need to notice if the "same connector" is being used at multiple locations at the same time - then you'd ban that individual connector.

None of this is impossible. The number of credit cards, and credit card transactions, will always be 100x greater than the number of EV charging sessions - and modern computers are very, very big.

I suspect Tesla cum NACS will not contain that kind of requirement (there's a draft spec, right, or it it approved, we can go spec-diving), I suspect Telsa's deal to make NACS available and an actual would stand in the way of that kind of control. And that there's possibly a "second source provision" was required by car companies like Ford, GM, etc.

Now.... I could be wrong. A standard could be open and include that kind of control. HDMI has some interesting parts. And Tesla chargers, in the interest of safety, could validate every connector. Save the children from cable fires and those dastardly chinese (or whatever country we're at odds with this decade) fakes!

That all being said, I'm with you that I'll be waiting for the Ford-supplied (likely Tesla manufactured) part, because I got them Ford Points to spend , part because this is an aftermarket part where I"m looking for that OEM stamp of certification.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Not following you. 3,500 Tesla Superchargers will be able to charge non-Tesla vehicles. Whether that is with Magic Dock, or Tesla putting a CCS nozzle on them, who cares?

I care. If you show up at a Supercharger without your adapter, you get hosed. If you show up at a MD Supercharger, you get charged.

 

[RickMachE]

I care. If you show up at a Supercharger without your adapter, you get hosed. If you show up at a MD Supercharger, you get charged.

No one ever said that the 3,500 chargers Tesla agreed to would require adapters. That would never have been part of the agreement. Whether it is with Magic Docks or a CCS hose alongside a Tesla hose, I don't care

 

[ChasingCoral]

Same adapter by the same company.

Right. And this video is a critical examination of it, not an advertisement.

 

[ChasingCoral]

No one ever said that the 3,500 chargers Tesla agreed to would require adapters. That would never have been part of the agreement. Whether it is with Magic Docks or a CCS hose alongside a Tesla hose, I don't care

"Tesla, for the first time, will open a portion of its U.S. Supercharger and Destination Charger network to non-Tesla EVs, making at least 7,500 chargers available for all EVs by the end of 2024."

Note that this says they will be open. It doesn't say whether or not you have to buy an adapter to use those open chargers.

 

[RickMachE]

"Tesla, for the first time, will open a portion of its U.S. Supercharger and Destination Charger network to non-Tesla EVs, making at least 7,500 chargers available for all EVs by the end of 2024."

Note that this says they will be open. It doesn't say whether or not you have to buy an adapter to use those open chargers.

So your interpretation is that the government cut a deal to open Tesla Superchargers to all non-Teslas and agreed that it would require an adapter? Ok.

My interpretation is that it would not. They would never agree to that.

What remains to be seen is how Tesla deals with the overlapping agreements - opening 3,500 Superchargers AND opening up 12,000 for Ford, GM, etc.

I am pretty confident that the deal with the government involved federal funds, but there is no proof of that.

 

[bigredx86]

"Tesla, for the first time, will open a portion of its U.S. Supercharger and Destination Charger network to non-Tesla EVs, making at least 7,500 chargers available for all EVs by the end of 2024."

Note that this says they will be open. It doesn't say whether or not you have to buy an adapter to use those open chargers.

**Disregard reading this, miss understood** Left for context.
End of 2024, woof!

Back to my hopes its First Quarter 2024, I reject your reality!

 

[RickMachE]

End of 2024, woof!

Back to my hopes its First Quarter 2024, I reject your reality!

You're misinterpreting this.

The deal cut in February, which has started with Magic Docks, is BY end of 2024, and includes those 3,500 SuperChargers PLUS doubling the SuperCharger network. As we now know, about 36 LOCATIONS in the US and Canada have Magic Docks, so that's roughly (very roughly) 5 - 10% of the way there).

The first quarter date, which isn't first quarter but is Spring 2024, is for 12,000 SuperChargers with an adapter we buy. Spring 2024 runs from 3/19/24 - 6/20/24. First quarter would be 13 of those 94 days.

 

[AZBill]

The is no good reason to buy an adapter right now. Why not just wait it out and see how this all shakes out.

The V4 chargers are being installed with Magic Docks, screens and CC readers, so no adapter will ever be needed on those.

Magic docks work today on V3 with the Tesla app. Tesla could decide to retrofit all V3 units with magic dock in order to have control and not need some potentially unsafe adapter. The update to those existing stations seems relatively easy for them.

Why not just wait and see what happens next year?

 

[bigredx86]

You're misinterpreting this.

The deal cut in February, which has started with Magic Docks, is BY end of 2024, and includes those 3,500 SuperChargers PLUS doubling the SuperCharger network. As we now know, about 36 LOCATIONS in the US and Canada have Magic Docks, so that's roughly (very roughly) 5 - 10% of the way there).

The first quarter date, which isn't first quarter but is Spring 2024, is for 12,000 SuperChargers with an adapter we buy. Spring 2024 runs from 3/19/24 - 6/20/24. First quarter would be 13 of those 94 days.

I've never been so happy to be wrong, maybe to early for a drink.

 

[ChasingCoral]

So your interpretation is that the government cut a deal to open Tesla Superchargers to all non-Teslas and agreed that it would require an adapter? Ok.

My interpretation is that it would not. They would never agree to that.

You are missing my point. Nowhere in this statement does it say that adapters won't be required:
"Tesla, for the first time, will open a portion of its U.S. Supercharger and Destination Charger network to non-Tesla EVs, making at least 7,500 chargers available for all EVs by the end of 2024."

To believe that is absolutely the case is like believing we will all get free adapters in the mail.

When reading announcements like this, it is important to read what they DON'T say explicitly. Reading more into the statement than the statement says leads to wishful thinking.

I truly hope you are right in your interpretation. I, however, won't assume that the statement says something it does not.

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