CCS to NACS

mkhuffman

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A2Z claims Approved* A2Z is in discussions with some OEMs to be the source of OEM adapters. I'm betting on being able to return it if turns out to not work.

*Meaning of "approved" :
  • Why can't we say by who? : The OEMs does not endorse publicly third party products/companies and we are forced by NDA not to mention any OEM.
  • Will it be compatible on Superchargers? : yes.
I think you should give it a shot now. I guess the issue will be activating the charger, but maybe if you plug in it will do something. Maybe the app will see it and let you charge. Assuming you have an active Tesla account with the payment method set up. It will only work on a V3 for sure, though.
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jpblincoln

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I'm going to try it weekly when I'm near a V3 Supercharger. I do have the Tesla app for Magic Dock locations. But the way Magic Docks work is you have to select the charger your at to activate and only Magic Dock locations are listed for non Tesla charging. It supposed to work through the Blue Oval Charge Network which means to me plug and play like EA. I'm hoping to catch a soft launch.
 

AZBill

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Did I miss the press release that announced 3rd party generic adapters would be supported?
Without a supported chip inside to handle the protocol negotiation, I don’t see how connecting this thing up could possibly work.
Protocol is CCS, the adapters are dumb.
 

bshaw

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Protocol is CCS, the adapters are dumb.
Why did each manufacturer have to go thru a ceremonial negotiation with Tesla and announcements were staggered as those meetings were concluded?

I agree with you that it technically should just be Tesla SC can now talk CCS protoco l thru a physical adapter, but there is more info to yet unfold.
Possibly it’s just pricing that each manufacturer was negotiating, but if it’s truly access based, then VIN comes into play on whether you are allowed to use an adapter or not. And whether your adapter was purchased thru the approved channel.
We’ll know more once the official adapters start being made available.
 


AZBill

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Why did each manufacturer have to go thru a ceremonial negotiation with Tesla and announcements were staggered as those meetings were concluded?

I agree with you that it technically should just be Tesla SC can now talk CCS protoco l thru a physical adapter, but there is more info to yet unfold.
Possibly it’s just pricing that each manufacturer was negotiating, but if it’s truly access based, then VIN comes into play on whether you are allowed to use an adapter or not. And whether your adapter was purchased thru the approved channel.
We’ll know more once the official adapters start being made available.
The negotiating is about setting up plug and charge, which includes the billing via Ford, GM, etc. The CCS protocol has that additional ISO standard and that is what Ford already uses with EA. Plug and charge does not use a vin.

Tesla could also just allow users to use the app and bill directly. The V4 stations already have screens and CC readers, which means they will be open to all CCS vehicles. The V4s have Magic Docks as well, but none are open to non-Teslas yet.
 

mkhuffman

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The negotiating is about setting up plug and charge, which includes the billing via Ford, GM, etc. The CCS protocol has that additional ISO standard and that is what Ford already uses with EA. Plug and charge does not use a vin.

Tesla could also just allow users to use the app and bill directly. The V4 stations already have screens and CC readers, which means they will be open to all CCS vehicles. The V4s have Magic Docks as well, but none are open to non-Teslas yet.
I agree. The Ford agreement with Telsa will allow plug and charge, and will allow us to use FordPass to access the SCs. And, most importantly to Ford, allow us to use our Ford accounts to pay for our charging (probably including some fee for Ford).

Without an agreement with Telsa to share data, Ford could not do that. Tesla could allow non-Teslas to charge today on V3/V4 chargers with an adapter and a payment account set up in the Telsa app. Just like they are doing with Magic Docks.
 

Guss-E 2021

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I agree. The Ford agreement with Telsa will allow plug and charge, and will allow us to use FordPass to access the SCs. And, most importantly to Ford, allow us to use our Ford accounts to pay for our charging (probably including some fee for Ford).

Without an agreement with Telsa to share data, Ford could not do that. Tesla could allow non-Teslas to charge today on V3/V4 chargers with an adapter and a payment account set up in the Telsa app. Just like they are doing with Magic Docks.
Going to be an interesting summer 😊
 

bigredx86

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Unless Tesla incorporates something into the approved adaptors to prevent unauthorized adaptors from being used.
The adapters have no identifiable info on them. I don’t believe the standard requires them to be “smart.” Unless someone can link something else but I thought they were just a hardwire reconfigure of pins.

if that’s the case, there would be no way to tell other then possible resistance drop that’s not tolerated.
 

ChasingCoral

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I agree. The Ford agreement with Telsa will allow plug and charge, and will allow us to use FordPass to access the SCs. And, most importantly to Ford, allow us to use our Ford accounts to pay for our charging (probably including some fee for Ford).
While we hope all of these are true, all we know for sure is we will be able to charge with adapters. Ford would like us to be able to use P&C and our Blue Oval Charge Network accounts but none of that is certain yet.

Personally, I would rather Ford get us access ASAP even if other details like P&C, Charge Assist, BOCN, etc. come later.

The adapters have no identifiable info on them.
Fascinating. When did you get one for evaluations. Can you share pictures?

I don’t believe the standard requires them to be “smart.” Unless someone can link something else but I thought they were just a hardwire reconfigure of pins.
While this is not a NACS to CCS1 adapter, the TeslaTap Tesla/NACS to J-1772 adapter certainly has circuitry.
"The adapter has a special circuit that allows it to work on any current Tesla charger including Destination Chargers."
http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=146

I think you will find this to be the case for most, if not all of them as the adapter must communicate with the Tesla charger to activate it.

I certainly expect such circuitry will be required for NACS to CCS1 adapters as well.
 

RickMachE

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I am of the belief that the Tesla to CCS adapters won't have an intelligence to them, they won't "communicate" to the Tesla charger, except perhaps an indication of the speed capability of the adapter, or a manufacturer ID of some type.

There may be tiers of adapters, with an approved tier getting faster speeds than an unapproved tier, which pushes the unapproved to get approved.

I expect a rollout to Ford in the next 4 or less weeks.
 

bshaw

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...except perhaps an indication of the speed capability of the adapter, or a manufacturer ID of some type.
I would consider these bits of information as "communicating with the Tesla charger", and therefore some chip is inside the adapter.

There may be tiers of adapters, with an approved tier getting faster speeds than an unapproved tier, which pushes the unapproved to get approved.
Sounds like a nice compromise, what speeds would an unapproved adapter be throttled at? If its real slow like 50kW, its going to create congestion problems with the budget adapters staying longer to charge.

I expect a rollout to Ford in the next 4 or less weeks.
Rollout to Ford for internal testing? Or rollout to Ford customers?
 

RickMachE

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I would consider these bits of information as "communicating with the Tesla charger", and therefore some chip is inside the adapter.


Sounds like a nice compromise, what speeds would an unapproved adapter be throttled at? If its real slow like 50kW, its going to create congestion problems with the budget adapters staying longer to charge.



Rollout to Ford for internal testing? Or rollout to Ford customers?
Ford customers. I think/hope we will be charging by end of February...
 

apwelsh

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No updates, no need to ask. When info is available in regards to how this looks and works, the forum will be talking all about it a lot. It's easily the biggest thing to happen to the MME since release.
It would be nice. I find Electrify America has a large number of 350kW chargers that work just as well. From L.A. to Vegas, I can charge at Barstow CA’s Walmart where they have a small number of chargers, bud always some fee for use, and then again at Baker, CA, and finally In Vegas. It’s. It iptimal, and the adaptor would allow me to charge in Primm, NV at a Tesla supercharger, and not having to charge again in Vegas, saving me 30 minutes in that drive. That would be nice, but I just don’t see it as something to be waiting anxiously for.
I understand everyone’s access to chargers vary, and for some Tesla super chargers are the best option, but I would be happy just to see more CCS super chargers in general.
 
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apwelsh

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They're not really known for their pro-carry stances so I don't think it's likely.
Is this some sort of jab at liberals, assuming liberals drive teslas? I’m not getting the reference here. People are people, what difference does it make what they drive? I don’t carry, but know many people that do. Some liberals and some conservatives, and none of them have an EV of any sort.
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