Coldest you would take EV over ICE?

[A-A-Ron]

Just wanted to point out nearly 98% of all new car registrations in Norway are EVs.

Electric car sales ‘historically strong’ | Norway's News in English — www.newsinenglish.no

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[RickMachE]

Just wanted to point out nearly 98% of all new car registrations in Norway are EVs.

Electric car sales ‘historically strong’ | Norway's News in English — www.newsinenglish.no

But, but, but... EVs aren't good in cold weather...

 

[A-A-Ron]

But, but, but... EVs aren't good in cold weather...

Good thing Norway is sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-tropical then

 

[AKgrampy]

I do only around town and short distances at highway speeds. I have found the car OK to about -20F and have driven it up to -35F which was marginal. My Expedition is much warmer obviosly and I have been using it to shuffle g-kids as it has been hovering around -20 for the last week. With the heated seats and steering it is fine for me but that is normally being out of the garage for 2 - 3 hours at those temps. Drive a 22GT hardtop.

 

[SonicBlue]

Hi Friends,

For those of you who own both an EV and an ICE vehicle and live in what I’ll call the “frozen tundra” (roughly north of the 45th parallel): when you’re heading out on a 3–5 hour winter road trip, which vehicle do you choose?

This isn’t about what’s technically possible - it’s about what’s practical and enjoyable.

From my experience with a 2021 Mach-E ER, the car can’t supply heat to the battery inlet and the cabin at the same time - it’s one or the other. The inlet temp (confirmed via Car Scanner) gets absolutely nothing if the Cabin Heater is turned on, even when there is only a minor kW heater draw for the Cabin Heat). So if I want to properly precondition for DCFC the battery en-route, I need to turn the cabin heat off entirely for a while to allow it to heat the battery.

Here’s how different temperature ranges feel to me in real-world use - and where I start questioning whether the EV or the ICE makes more sense:

Scenario A) –10°C (14°F)
Some range loss, but the battery isn’t deep-frozen on arrival at DCFC, so it warms fairly quickly. Preheating for fast charging helps if you’re on a tight schedule. EV still feels easy.

Scenario B) –15°C (5°F)
Preheating becomes increasingly important. Cabin heat often needs to be turned off briefly to get meaningful heat into the battery before charging.

Scenario C) –20°C (–4°F)
This is my personal “fork in the road.” Either accept noticeably slower charging, or sacrifice your comfort in the cabin to prioritize warming the battery.

Scenario D) –25°C (–13°F)
This is the coldest I’ve done personally, and it felt borderline. The cabin never fully reached normal comfort (because the car decided for me that heating the battery was necessary and not just a nice-to-have for DCFC). Don't even think about battery preconditioning for DCFC en route in fact. Charging stops were roughly 2–2.5× slower - the first ~15 minutes were mostly spent heating the battery (often I would exit the vehicle since cabin heat had to stay off and grab a coffee somewhere). Cold-gating further limited charge rates to protect the battery.

Scenario E) –30°C (–22°F)
Unknown - haven’t tested yet.

Scenario F) –35°C (–31°F)
Hard pass? ICE territory?

I’m curious where everyone else falls: At which temperature do you still prefer the EV for winter road trips, and where does the ICE start to make more sense for you?

Why… would you choose an EV in any of those scenarios? What if you can’t locate a working DCFC? Are you suicidal?

 

[SonicBlue]

Hi Friends,

For those of you who own both an EV and an ICE vehicle and live in what I’ll call the “frozen tundra” (roughly north of the 45th parallel): when you’re heading out on a 3–5 hour winter road trip, which vehicle do you choose?

This isn’t about what’s technically possible - it’s about what’s practical and enjoyable.

From my experience with a 2021 Mach-E ER, the car can’t supply heat to the battery inlet and the cabin at the same time - it’s one or the other. The inlet temp (confirmed via Car Scanner) gets absolutely nothing if the Cabin Heater is turned on, even when there is only a minor kW heater draw for the Cabin Heat). So if I want to properly precondition for DCFC the battery en-route, I need to turn the cabin heat off entirely for a while to allow it to heat the battery.

Here’s how different temperature ranges feel to me in real-world use - and where I start questioning whether the EV or the ICE makes more sense:

Scenario A) –10°C (14°F)
Some range loss, but the battery isn’t deep-frozen on arrival at DCFC, so it warms fairly quickly. Preheating for fast charging helps if you’re on a tight schedule. EV still feels easy.

Scenario B) –15°C (5°F)
Preheating becomes increasingly important. Cabin heat often needs to be turned off briefly to get meaningful heat into the battery before charging.

Scenario C) –20°C (–4°F)
This is my personal “fork in the road.” Either accept noticeably slower charging, or sacrifice your comfort in the cabin to prioritize warming the battery.

Scenario D) –25°C (–13°F)
This is the coldest I’ve done personally, and it felt borderline. The cabin never fully reached normal comfort (because the car decided for me that heating the battery was necessary and not just a nice-to-have for DCFC). Don't even think about battery preconditioning for DCFC en route in fact. Charging stops were roughly 2–2.5× slower - the first ~15 minutes were mostly spent heating the battery (often I would exit the vehicle since cabin heat had to stay off and grab a coffee somewhere). Cold-gating further limited charge rates to protect the battery.

Scenario E) –30°C (–22°F)
Unknown - haven’t tested yet.

Scenario F) –35°C (–31°F)
Hard pass? ICE territory?

I’m curious where everyone else falls: At which temperature do you still prefer the EV for winter road trips, and where does the ICE start to make more sense for you?

Wait - so is this with a heat pump or without?? How can we possibly choose without such essential information?

 

[motto]

Why… would you choose an EV in any of those scenarios? What if you can’t locate a working DCFC? Are you suicidal?

This would be personal for everyone... in my case in heavy snow, I much prefer a heavier AWD vehicle like the Mach-E as it chews through snow like nothing else. Since I am not planning on moving away from the Frozen Tundra, I will need to keep facing winter. Staying home for 7 months out of the year is also not something I want to think about.

And I agree with you, I would hope that people pushing the limits of their cars even just a little would pre-plan their stops and include some safety margin.

Wait - so is this with a heat pump or without?? How can we possibly choose without such essential information?

For the purposes of this thread, just assume your own EV(s).

As for Heat Pumps, which are very efficient around 5-15°C (41-59°F), I'd expect a lot less little heat output below -15°C (5°F) or even -25°C (-13°F) since there isn't much heat to pull from the ambient air. Anybody know the COP curve of the Mach-E 2025 heat pump at various ambient temps?

 

[TheRock]

This would be personal for everyone... in my case in heavy snow, I much prefer a heavier AWD vehicle like the Mach-E as it chews through snow like nothing else. Since I am not planning on moving away from the Frozen Tundra, I will need to keep facing winter. Staying home for 7 months out of the year is also not something I want to think about.

And I agree with you, I would hope that people pushing the limits of their cars even just a little would pre-plan their stops and include some safety margin.


For the purposes of this thread, just assume your own EV(s).

As for Heat Pumps, which are very efficient around 5-15°C (41-59°F), I'd expect a lot less little heat output below -15°C (5°F) or even -25°C (-13°F) since there isn't much heat to pull from the ambient air. Anybody know the COP curve of the Mach-E 2025 heat pump at various ambient temps?

Tesla has the best heat pump in the market. And yes they work in the coldest part of Canada/Yukon. -30c is known temperature in several parts of Canada.

To have own a Model 3 and experience -30c, it was blasting hot air without any problems.

 

[JustSomeQuickGuy]

We have family in central Indiana, I wouldn't dare take my Mach-E on the 4 hour trip there in the winter. It's a terrible experience even in the summer.

We rent a car every time.

 

[Mopey]

The early model Mach Es (21-22) definitely have inadequate heating in extreme cold due to a too small inline heater. When it is cold (like the -35F it is today here), I normally drive the Lightning which has MUCH better heating. In either car, when running errands, I do leave it running by turning off the headlights, putting the main display in the standby mode by pressing and holding the volume knob for a few seconds, putting a cloth across the driver's display, and manually locking the doors with the external lock button. As long as your battery is reasonably well charged (as it always should be in super cold weather), you can leave the car\truck "idling" for hours and always come out to a toasty cabin and a warmish battery. Without any exhaust from a tailpipe, you aren't giving any potential car thieves a "please steal me" signal.

So, in answer to the original posters question - I use the same temperature cutoff in an EV as I do in an ICE. That temperature is based on safety, not the type of car.

 

[Space_Pony]

When I read the title of this thread, I chuckled thinking that it would be best if the temps were sub-zero to drive your EV over ICE because the ICE would be thicker. I've heard about people driving over ice with trucks but I would want to know how thick it is.

 

[TheSteelRider]

Hi Friends,

For those of you who own both an EV and an ICE vehicle and live in what I’ll call the “frozen tundra” (roughly north of the 45th parallel): when you’re heading out on a 3–5 hour winter road trip, which vehicle do you choose?

This isn’t about what’s technically possible - it’s about what’s practical and enjoyable.

From my experience with a 2021 Mach-E ER, the car can’t supply heat to the battery inlet and the cabin at the same time - it’s one or the other. The inlet temp (confirmed via Car Scanner) gets absolutely nothing if the Cabin Heater is turned on, even when there is only a minor kW heater draw for the Cabin Heat). So if I want to properly precondition for DCFC the battery en-route, I need to turn the cabin heat off entirely for a while to allow it to heat the battery.

Here’s how different temperature ranges feel to me in real-world use - and where I start questioning whether the EV or the ICE makes more sense:

Scenario A) –10°C (14°F)
Some range loss, but the battery isn’t deep-frozen on arrival at DCFC, so it warms fairly quickly. Preheating for fast charging helps if you’re on a tight schedule. EV still feels easy.

Scenario B) –15°C (5°F)
Preheating becomes increasingly important. Cabin heat often needs to be turned off briefly to get meaningful heat into the battery before charging.

Scenario C) –20°C (–4°F)
This is my personal “fork in the road.” Either accept noticeably slower charging, or sacrifice your comfort in the cabin to prioritize warming the battery.

Scenario D) –25°C (–13°F)
This is the coldest I’ve done personally, and it felt borderline. The cabin never fully reached normal comfort (because the car decided for me that heating the battery was necessary and not just a nice-to-have for DCFC). Don't even think about battery preconditioning for DCFC en route in fact. Charging stops were roughly 2–2.5× slower - the first ~15 minutes were mostly spent heating the battery (often I would exit the vehicle since cabin heat had to stay off and grab a coffee somewhere). Cold-gating further limited charge rates to protect the battery.

Scenario E) –30°C (–22°F)
Unknown - haven’t tested yet.

Scenario F) –35°C (–31°F)
Hard pass? ICE territory?

I’m curious where everyone else falls: At which temperature do you still prefer the EV for winter road trips, and where does the ICE start to make more sense for you?

I would feel comfortable taking the EV down to about -273.15 °C , but anything lower and I don't think it would do well

 

[ChrisO]

When I read the title of this thread, I chuckled thinking that it would be best if the temps were sub-zero to drive your EV over ICE because the ICE would be thicker. I've heard about people driving over ice with trucks but I would want to know how thick it is.

The term ICE and certainly get confusing these days.

I'm glad that I don't have to deal with such temperatures, and I wouldn't worry much about around town, but for sure on any long trip I would wimp out pretty quickly and take the Mustang if we were going to do such a trip. One should always keep their safety in mind. I consider it the same as asking what I would put in the car to ensure that if we got stuck somewhere.

 

[Crafty42]

When I read the title of this thread, I chuckled thinking that it would be best if the temps were sub-zero to drive your EV over ICE because the ICE would be thicker. I've heard about people driving over ice with trucks but I would want to know how thick it is.

I thought the same thing. I came to reply that the thickness of the ICE would be more my concern than the temperature. Assuming they were driving out on a frozen lake to do some ice fishing.

 

[Billyk24]

The early model Mach Es (21-22) definitely have inadequate heating in extreme cold due to a too small inline heater. When it is cold (like the -35F it is today here), I normally drive the Lightning which has MUCH better heating. In either car, when running errands, I do leave it running by turning off the headlights, putting the main display in the standby mode by pressing and holding the volume knob for a few seconds, putting a cloth across the driver's display, and manually locking the doors with the external lock button. As long as your battery is reasonably well charged (as it always should be in super cold weather), you can leave the car\truck "idling" for hours and always come out to a toasty cabin and a warmish battery. Without any exhaust from a tailpipe, you aren't giving any potential car thieves a "please steal me" signal.

So, in answer to the original posters question - I use the same temperature cutoff in an EV as I do in an ICE. That temperature is based on safety, not the type of car.

If I am correct starting with the 2023.5 Standard range LFP battery, a 7kW heater and new system was installed. The extended range batteries do not have a 7kW heater. The other issue is the battery pack is "open" to cold air flowing over the top and bottom of it causing extra conductive heat losses. This is why a discussion on a potential "winter cap" exists.

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