Consumer Reports: Mach-E vs. Kia EV6

[GreaseMonkey]

Where do you think that JD Power data comes from? Surveys, just like Consumer Reports.

I think the crisp $1 bill makes the difference ?

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[DennisD]

This is the exact confirmation bias issue I’m talking about.

CR has been telling us since the 70s that American cars are crap and Japanese are the best.

And in the 70s-90s for reliability……. They were right.

But that gap completely closed in the 2000s. But anyone who liked American cars quit reading CR years ago. So the only people getting surveyed have believed American cars are crap for decades.

EVERY survey will be biased.

At least with JD power they’re just using straight data (problems per 100 vehicles).

The irony is palpable.

You are suggesting that CR is crap and always will because of how they gather information.

You are suggesting that only people that are getting surveyed, are saying American cars are crap because of past reviews.

Yes, every survey will be biased........................just like your review of CR. ?

Well I can't argue with you on "biasness". You seem to have full control of that definition.

Too funny.

 

[Jimrpa]

We make the better toaster oven!


CR is such a waste.

I remember back when I worked at an appliance and electronics store years ago.

CR shoppers were the worst.

“I want this model, CR says it’s the best.”

……..that model is last years, it’s discontinued. But here is the identical one they just changed the model number.

“CR doesn’t like that one as much.”

…….. it’s identical to the one they liked last year.


My favorite was when they ranked two identical big screen TVs significantly differently. Literally the same model but one had a better speaker system and anti glare screen…….. it was ranked lower for sound and glare.

When you survey your readers after telling them what to buy……. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

And of course, there was the highly rated Mitsubishi Eclipse versus the POS Eagle Talon. ???

 

[machefan2022]

A buddy of mine just picked up a EV6 Wind 2 days ago. got it at MSRP. Only because he bought it, drove it 25 miles until it bricked. Bad cells in the battery requiring battery replacement.

Incidental, but true.

 

[Mach1E]

Interesting that you mentioned JD Powers...

Exactly.

It’s just straight data. No opinions.

They’ve been doing it like this for a long time. It’s not perfect, but at least it’s fair and objective.

And look! 4 of the top 10? American cars.

It’s been like this for a long time.

 

[4sallypat]

I put a deposit down on a Kia EV6 on 7/1, car arrived 3 months later on 10/15, decided not to go that route due to the change in tax credit (although, if wife wasn’t a CPA tax accountant, we would have claimed the 1k deposit plus purchase agreement were enough for a binding contract and rolled the dice, not to mention, IRS might change the guidelines between now and then), and my Kia dealership refunded the money, and were only going to charge MSRP. The fact they can actually build the cars and get them shipped (From Korea!) here in 3 months time, vs 8+ months for Ford (3/17 order date, hope to get it by December?) says a lot.

Wow, amazing speed for delivery of an ordered car!

Does anyone know if the lack of the new $7500 tax credit (not made in North America) after the IRA was signed, affect sales of the Hyundai, VW, Kia EVs ???

 

[Mach1E]

The irony is palpable.

You are suggesting that CR is crap and always will because of how they gather information.

You are suggesting that only people that are getting surveyed, are saying American cars are crap because of past reviews.

Yes, every survey will be biased........................just like your review of CR. ?

Well I can't argue with you on "biasness". You seem to have full control of that definition.

Too funny.

Keep believing CR reviews if you like to.

Eventually you may see through the nonsense, but maybe not.

When you’re an expert on a product and know all the details about how they’re built, you’ll see how unreliable the CR reports were.

If you’re just a casual reader like most people, you’ll treat CR reports like the gold standard.

I don’t think you understand how irony works. You seem to be suggesting it’s impossible to call a bad review……. Bad.

 

[Mach1E]

Clearly people who like American cars are still reading CR because enough of them are responding to CR's surveys in sufficient numbers for CR to get an idea of how great or crappy American cars are. If you don't own a particular car, you don't fill out the survey for the particular car. They aren't asking you if you think American cars are crap, or if you think foreign cars are the best. They're asking "what is the most recent car you've bought and have you had problems in these key areas?"

Except that’s not really what’s happened. Most people have owned a variety of cars, but in the end have a bit of a bias.

And people LOVE confirmation bias. So the CR readers have ended up swaying a certain direction for preferences. Who is gonna keep subscribing to a magazine that says your purchases are crap?

It would be like surveying only Fox News viewers and asking “who is the best candidate for President?” Pretty sure the results of that survey are predictable. Won’t be 100%, but may be darn close.

A general public survey is significantly more accurate than only surveying “your readers.” Just look at the demographics of any magazine subscribers. They tend to be a small cross section of the actual population.

 

[Mach1E]

Where do you think that JD Power data comes from? Surveys, just like Consumer Reports.

General public surveys of data vs only surveying CR readers.

Huge difference.

 

[Shayne]

We make the better toaster oven!


CR is such a waste.

I remember back when I worked at an appliance and electronics store years ago.

CR shoppers were the worst.

“I want this model, CR says it’s the best.”

……..that model is last years, it’s discontinued. But here is the identical one they just changed the model number.

“CR doesn’t like that one as much.”

…….. it’s identical to the one they liked last year.


My favorite was when they ranked two identical big screen TVs significantly differently. Literally the same model but one had a better speaker system and anti glare screen…….. it was ranked lower for sound and glare.

When you survey your readers after telling them what to buy……. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

That is why they think you will pay them for their opinion. They know EV's like no one else on the web.

 

[DennisD]

Except that’s not really what’s happened. Most people have owned a variety of cars, but in the end have a bit of a bias.

And people LOVE confirmation bias. So the CR readers have ended up swaying a certain direction for preferences. Who is gonna keep subscribing to a magazine that says your purchases are crap?

It would be like surveying only Fox News viewers and asking “who is the best candidate for President?” Pretty sure the results of that survey are predictable. Won’t be 100%, but may be darn close.

A general public survey is significantly more accurate than only surveying “your readers.” Just look at the demographics of any magazine subscribers. They tend to be a small cross section of the actual population.

Consumer Reports would like to have as big of an audience as possible.

If you think that CR is doing this to sway readers, you are following the same example of many Fox viewers conspiracy theories.

The typical Fox view, IMO seem to believe that there is a mass conspiracy against everything that is "good" and what they "like" and the "outsiders" are out to get them.

CR is an organization that is simply relaying the information that they are getting onto paper if you will.

Whether you like their results or not are immaterial.

What I see is that this is usually a good guide to my purchasing. Of course there is biasness. Usually though, the biasness would normal slant the opposite way. Many times people that own the product don't want to bad mouth it.

I read CR as a guide, not as an absolute. Some of the cars I have owned were crap. If they (CR) were to ask me what ones, I would start off with the Ford Focus as being the worst I have owned and the Prius as one of the most reliable ones.

Because it happens to match the CR reports doesn't constitute it to being biased?

What is funny, is that you don't like when the Consumer i.e. people like you and me Report the information?

You actually think that in Consumer Reports, the consumer i.e. reader, should not be relied on said report.

 

[Mach1E]

Consumer Reports would like to have as big of an audience as possible.

If you think that CR is doing this to sway readers, you are following the same example of many Fox viewers conspiracy theories.

The typical Fox view, IMO seem to believe that there is a mass conspiracy against everything that is "good" and what they "like" and the "outsiders" are out to get them.

CR is an organization that is simply relaying the information that they are getting onto paper if you will.

Whether you like their results or not are immaterial.

What I see is that this is usually a good guide to my purchasing. Of course there is biasness. Usually though, the biasness would normal slant the opposite way. Many times people that own the product don't want to bad mouth it.

I read CR as a guide, not as an absolute. Some of the cars I have owned were crap. If they (CR) were to ask me what ones, I would start off with the Ford Focus as being the worst I have owned and the Prius as one of the most reliable ones.

Because it happens to match the CR reports doesn't constitute it to being biased?

What is funny, is that you don't like when the Consumer i.e. people like you and me Report the information?

You actually think that in Consumer Reports, the consumer i.e. reader, should not report.

It’s not a conspiracy theory.

I also don’t think it’s something they’re doing to sway readers with some agenda.

It’s just an obvious flaw in their methodology.

Is CR completely useless? No. I actually would use them as a data point for a toaster oven.

But for cars? I’ll just stick with the data.

 

[DennisD]

It’s not a conspiracy theory.

I also don’t think it’s something they’re doing to sway readers with some agenda.

It’s just an obvious flaw in their methodology.

Is CR completely useless? No. I actually would use them as a data point for a toaster oven.

But for cars? I’ll just stick with the data.

You will stick with the data. Just not their (the consumers) data.

Got it. ?

 

[Guss-E 2021]

I know it's a smaller and more biased sampling, but I prefer the opinion of owners in this forum. Yes, small and biased but I think more genuine. Especially when you consider people mostly post here to complain.

I've really enjoy the posts from MME owners who also own a second, different EV. My take away is that the MME is an all-arounder: not the best but certainly not the worst option for an EV purchase.

The OP seems to be further proof of this. Right now my only daily issue is the AA latency. Something I know can be fixed without a full model redesign.

 

[Blue highway]

They still spend a ton of time and $$ on surveys:

https://www.consumerreports.org/consumer-research/cr-survey-a4079312300/

People seem to like CR when they get some form of confirmation bias.

https://data.consumerreports.org/rating-methods/

“……, and where applicable, longer-term reliability and owner satisfaction data from CR Members,….”

^^ This is the CR problem... it is a confirmation bias cycle. Do you really think that buyers of a Toyota corolla and the buyers of a Nissan GT-R think the same way about their cars or report the same kinds of things... don't think so.

It doesn't mean that everything they do is nonsense, but it's more directional than science. sorry.

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