Darren Palmer: 5-second limit on full power acceleration will be "changed"

[BigMach-E]

Yeah, I think it’s likely there will be a change. In the case of the job 1 frunk challenged cars, there are in the vicinity of 10,000 affected vehicles. In the case of the GT throttling, it’s every single GT ever built. What I’m not convinced about is that current vehicles will get the change before those rolling off the assembly line on (insert arbitrary date). I think it’s likely you’ll see changes in new cars first and quiet about existing cars until they get a round toit. Unless they can monetize it.

You know they want to monetize it. If they are smart, they will do something like: unlock 6.5-7 sec total 480 hp, make it free. Paid unlock of 562 hp for 8-10 sec. I doubt they will just give us what the motors are capable of for free.

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[Kamuelaflyer]

I doubt they will just give us what the motors are capable of for free.

That might not be possible, free or not. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, they offer current GT owners.

 

[BigMach-E]

I would be upset if the new cars get a change to the 5 second limit and Ford tries to monetize it for existing cars. We were sold the GT or the GT-Performance Edition on the basis of performance. It would suck to have to pay again for performance that was implied in those track videos. ?‍?

I know, the implication of what the car can do and what is reality are vastly different, and current owners have every right to feel slighted. I just don’t think Ford doesn’t have money signs in their eyes because they know we are semi-captive customers. Hope I’m wrong here.

 

[ctenidae]

I won't Pony up for the change, and I'll probably do it loudly. The limit is in place because Ford under-engineered the battery pack, but they still up charged for improved performance. I feel like we've already paid for the performance that we're not getting, and having to do it twice rubs me the wrong way.

If they pull the old "let's squeeze them for every penny we can" trick, they will not get another penny from me, ever. My wife thinks I'm stupid for having bought a Ford in the first place, and I'd really hate for her to be right. You can be sure I won't let her be right twice.

 

[Jimrpa]

I’m guilty. Got my Ford Big Wigs confused. Hard to tell who’s speaking from the ivory towers of Dearborn when I’m way down here in the ghetto gutters with a 5 second limit in one car and no remote frunk in the other. ?

Also I’m old and need my brain space to remember more important things like the proper dose of succinylcholine or not to drive away and leave my charger at work.

It’s nickname is (or used to be) “the glass house” ?

 

[cvk71]

Giving the car the power I though it was going to have could save Ford from losing me as a customer. While everything is not perfect with the car (8 problems I had the dealer look at when I took it in for its 40K service, 4 of which have been looked at previously) these problems have not got to the point where I am ready to jettison the car or Ford, yet. Problems with an all new platform I was actually expecting, but I was no expecting to have a "performance" car that was only fast for 5 seconds.

 

[dtbaker61]

I don't think I would suggest extending time of full power unless it came with installation of a few more temp sensors and probably enhanced cooling of key areas where heat builds up quickly. If additional sensors were in place, the algo could be changed from 'calculated' to 'actual' power limiting only when temps were actually high in problem areas.

 

[Mach1E]

I don't think I would suggest extending time of full power unless it came with installation of a few more temp sensors and probably enhanced cooling of key areas where heat builds up quickly. If additional sensors were in place, the algo could be changed from 'calculated' to 'actual' power limiting only when temps were actually high in problem areas.

Why?

According to the video, they can increase the power and heat isn’t an issue for the life of the 8 year warranty.

So it would seem extra sensors and cooling is completely unnecessary.

Makes sense as I’ve been saying this for a while- zero Mach E GTs have broken as a result of acceleration.

Now for future models, if they want to push closer to the actual limit, yes, more sensors and possibly cooling would be necessary.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Why?

According to the video, they can increase the power and heat isn’t an issue for the life of the 8 year warranty.

So it would seem extra sensors and cooling is completely unnecessary.

Makes sense as I’ve been saying this for a while- zero Mach E GTs have broken as a result of acceleration.

Now for future models, if they want to push closer to the actual limit, yes, more sensors and possibly cooling would be necessary.

I would say that they can approximate a limit with modelling. That's only an artificial approximation of the limit that likely will still be conservative. If we want the maximum of what we can get and have the limiter switch off and on (or better yet, throttle the limit up and down), sensors and software are necessary. Obviously, we're not going to get any additional hardware for this, so we're stuck with an approximation. ?‍?

I'll still believe it when I believe it. Whenever this happens, I am betting that the increase in the limit is going to be pretty marginal. Pretty certain that the engineering team already did a lot of modelling prior to release of the GT, so were not going to get a big delta. ??

 

[Mach1E]

I would say that they can approximate a limit with modelling. That's only an artificial approximation of the limit that likely will still be conservative. If we want the maximum of what we can get and have the limiter switch off and on (or better yet, throttle the limit up and down), sensors and software are necessary. Obviously, we're not going to get any additional hardware for this, so we're stuck with an approximation. ?‍?

I'll still believe it when I believe it. Whenever this happens, I am betting that the increase in the limit is going to be pretty marginal. Pretty certain that the engineering team already did a lot of modelling prior to release of the GT, so were not going to get a big delta. ??

I don’t think they did much modeling before release, that’s why we got the super restrictive limits in the first place.

And it isn’t the 5 seconds that’s the biggest limit, it’s what happens after the 5 seconds.

If they figure out how to give us……. 430 hp all the time and maybe a 10 second limit when possible (like Hyundai), I would be happy.


Even with extra temp sensors, etc I’m not sure that they could rely on temp feedback to adjust power. The things that heat up do so in a fraction of a second.

Seems that BEVs that limit power (or have boost modes) only rely on feedback of the system BEFORE you floor it. I’m not aware of any car that will pull power based on feedback during full throttle.

 

[Stang68]

He said they can (as in are capable of) make the change via OTA. He did not say they would. He then said there will be a change but he did not say to existing GTs. His answer was informative but also careful.

He sort of did say they would...
"so that's something we can control over the air and we are going to change that limit."

Obviously we're parsing words here and they could definitely not do anything and we have no leg to stand on.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

He sort of did say they would...
"so that's something we can control over the air and we are going to change that limit."

Obviously we're parsing words here and they could definitely not do anything and we have no leg to stand on.

He said almost literally the same thing about job 1 cars and the Frunk 2 1/2 years ago. His credibility isn’t exactly stellar with me.

 

[Stang68]

He said almost literally the same thing about job 1 cars and the Frunk 2 1/2 years ago. His credibility isn’t exactly stellar with me.

You bite your tongue!!

*weeps*

 

[Mach1E]

He said almost literally the same thing about job 1 cars and the Frunk 2 1/2 years ago. His credibility isn’t exactly stellar with me.

Did he though? No one has posted the link or interview. We do know he has gotten confused with the head honcho, so I’m curious to hear exactly what he said back then.

Found this-
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/frunk.2063/

Said that “electronic opening frunk will be coming in 2021.”

Which part of that makes us think that job 1 would get a button on FordPass?

It did come, for job 2 and beyond.

Doesn’t exactly seem like a broken promise. Would be interested to see the actual Q&A.

On a related note, do job 1 frunk have a button inside the frunk that works or a button on the main screen? Both would be “electronic opening” options as well.

 

[ctenidae]

From Ford's Testing Procedures Design and Development Manual (Rev 1995):

I think this may shed some light on the battery pack design and testing.

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