Do you think it’s likely that the 5 second acceleration limit will change?

[azerik]

You're correct. It isn't really an inferior product as it was over stated promises and numbers.

They. Ford. Posted specs and numbers. Which arn't sustainable and most of the time not even obtainable. We no longer live in the "performance at sea level" days. I don't see Telsa saying 0-60 in 3.9 * Under very special circumstances, for a limited time, then it needs a break for a while, then maybe a couple more seconds and a longer break.
UnbridleD Extended. * For a little longer than other GT's Sometimes.
Tesla at least designed from the start for them to be treated like RC cars really. Full throttle, hammer the brakes full throttle again and again. It really only takes about 20 to 30 seconds of that before even the most bonkers person starts to back off just because it's dangerous or they've crashed.
The biggest hurdle they (Ford) set up is the fact they display the jail bars at all. If not displayed people wouldn't know without some fairly detailed logging. At which the internet would be a flood with nay sayers about tires, tire pressure, blacktop temps, weight of the driver etc.

Not that other companies don't outright lie about specs and features. Ford again, built a secretaries car, then tried to muscle it up on paper.

Shelby American is working on the hardware and software to make it happen. They're also going to improve the brakes and handling.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say both motors and most of the wiring get replaced in order to make this reality.

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[HuntingPudel]

Heh, they’re going to have to replace everything that handles power from the cells to the bus bars to the inverters. The car was originally designed as the compliance car. Unfortunately, Ford kept a lot of the power handling stuff from that model instead of re-engineering it. Of course, Ford’s claims of performance and videos of engineers beating the thing on the track bamboozled a number of people (including me) into buying a GT. ?‍?

 

[randomvoice]

Honestly, I thought it was a big deal before the purchase however, after driving it around for a while now, I've never gone 'oh I wish I had more power' with this thing. Honestly, it just feels unsafe on the road if you throw more power into this especially with the stock tires. The car weighs 5000 pounds and flys off like a bullet.

I do think it isn't software locked due to greed. I think it is an issue with the thermals and they need to re-engineer the pack to support it but I don't think I'm willing to swap cars and shell out more if 2 years down the road, a Mach E came without the limit. That is just me.

 

[MachEMaster]

How does the Mach E 1400 do it?

 

[BigMach-E]

How does the Mach E 1400 do it?

Um, it’s got 7 motors, it’s got probably massive cooling that would not be possible on a production vehicle at scale and price that makes sense, it has a multi gear transmission that has to be a bear to maintain. That’s a test bed, the MME GTPE is a car that will likely last 100k+ without a whole lot of serious maintenance. I’m sure the 1400 has to be retooled a lot each time they bring it out.

 

[BigMach-E]

I have it on good authority that a GT fire during late pre-production testing in AZ is exactly what prompted the eventual 5-sec limit, as well as the “unbridled extend” bs mode. Or, I’m totally full of shit, you pick ! ??‍

Yep, the former, not the latter, seems likely. Probably ambient temp was a major factor here, and probably back to back to back runs.

I am just saying, and I might be wrong, but I feel that Ford is being more conservative then they need to be with the car.

I really think that the 5 second limit isn’t going to go away, but I don’t think it’s about fire straight out, it’s about component failure.

It would be nice if they would just give us 2 more seconds of full power. I’m not sure if the bus bars or other components can handle that.

The reason the car gets gapped by Model Y Performance is also a weight thing.

 

[HuntingPudel]

How does the Mach E 1400 do it?

The Mach-E 1400 shares pretty much nothing other than the badges, head and tail lights, and the roof with the production Mach-E. It's a one-off performance exercise with a full tube frame. It's kind of like comparing the car in my avatar with any other 1964 Tempest. Well, maybe not, since the Grey Ghost started life out as a street car and raced in the Trans-Am series 7 years later. The Mach-E 1400 was never a production Mach-E to start with. ??

 

[silverelan]

Speaking of which, anyone know what were the advantages to Ford of making the MME battery 400V as opposed to 800V? Seems like the number of battery cells in series just needs to be double, but the resulting power is the same while the amperage is cut in half, no? Yes you need thicker insulation, but I presume that’s a lot less expensive than copper bus bars…..?

I presume I’m missing something, but I’m not sure what.

The MME’s EV componentry dates back to 2017 when 800v was not readily available nor was it cost effective to source from suppliers. We’re arguably at the point where 800v makes sense going forward for any new platform at the mid-tier pricepoint and above.

I’m not an EE but I would think some hardware upgrades to the MME could be possible in a mid-cycle refresh to enable faster Charging and eliminate the 5 Second Rule for GTs.

 

[Mach1E]

Shelby American is working on the hardware and software to make it happen. They're also going to improve the brakes and handling.

Are they though? They’ve had plenty of time to come up with something but have been dead quiet since the cosmetic upgrades only show car.

I feel like if they wait much longer it’ll be a total waste as the next mid model refresh shouldn’t be that far away.

Also shocked that all the aftermarket performance tuners are doing nothing.

Do they just plan to go out of business in a few years?

Kinda hard to keep a typewriter repair shop in business when people stop buying typewriters.

 

[azerik]

They don’t want to touch it because there’s a history report of things getting messed with. Look at the fact that Mike can tell you your software down to the module from and FDRS query.

There is very little money to be made building a MME GTPE to Shelby levels when it costs probably close to $150k (including donor vehicle). Granted that’s a Raptor or Braptor price these days. If it cost them closer to $200k They might sell a couple. Just build another 1400 and offer them for sale. They’ll do great in Dubai.

There is a GT at San Tan Ford. $650k 6 5 0. I’m still floored that it’s nearly 3/4 million.

 

[BigMach-E]

They don’t want to touch it because there’s a history report of things getting messed with. Look at the fact that Mike can tell you your software down to the module from and FDRS query.

There is very little money to be made building a MME GTPE to Shelby levels when it costs probably close to $150k (including donor vehicle). Granted that’s a Raptor or Braptor price these days. If it cost them closer to $200k They might sell a couple. Just build another 1400 and offer them for sale. They’ll do great in Dubai.

There is a GT at San Tan Ford. $650k 6 5 0. I’m still floored that it’s nearly 3/4 million.

That’s crazy. Buy an Lucid Air Sapphire, which will smoke that GT, save yourself 400k.

 

[Fat Mach]

I had lunch with Vince LaViolette (Shelby American VP of Production and R&D) in August. We sat next to each other while he told me in broad terms that Shelby is working on the power, braking, and handling of the MME. He said it would be a couple years before they release an upgrade package. They typically don't reveal anything about a new vehicle until the prototype is fully tested and ready to be unveiled. One "tidbit" he told me is they're VERY cognizant of ensuring their software upgrades ARE NOT overwritten by OTA updates.

 

[Mach1E]

I had lunch with Vince LaViolette (Shelby American VP of Production and R&D) in August. We sat next to each other while he told me in broad terms that Shelby is working on the power, braking, and handling of the MME. He said it would be a couple years before they release an upgrade package. They typically don't reveal anything about a new vehicle until the prototype is fully tested and ready to be unveiled. One "tidbit" he told me is they're VERY cognizant of ensuring their software upgrades ARE NOT overwritten by OTA updates.

I wish they weren’t so slow to market. Suspension and cosmetics should take no time. Power upgrades? Months at most.

By the time they get here a refreshed version will be here or coming, more competition and they’ll probably price it above $100k.

At that point I would buy an R1S Rivian or an EV Macan GTS.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

I wish they weren’t so slow to market. Suspension and cosmetics should take no time. Power upgrades? Months at most.

By the time they get here a refreshed version will be here or coming, more competition and they’ll probably price it above $100k.

At that point I would buy an R1S Rivian or an EV Macan GTS.

Shelby American isn’t gonna be the savior of the MME GT. In the past few years they haven’t even been able to get a good running Super Snake to the auto media for testing, they all seem to be slower (ET and trap speed) than regular GT500s even though the HP rating is much higher. Or, they go into limp mode during video testing a la the Super Snake vs. Hellcat Throttle House drag race.

And this is on a tried and true Coyote/Predator platform that makes tons of power when modded/tuned well. I have 0 faith in them boosting output on a BEV platform that might as well be an X-wing fighter to them.

 

[Whiskymaker]

I've spent time examining the design of the pack, size of busbar, cell tabs, etc and it's my own engineering opinion. For example, the size of the busbar in the Model S plaid pack is about 6x larger than our busbars even though it only has 2x more horsepower. That would suggest our busbars are undersized by a factor of 2-3x.

See: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ain-contactors-may-overheat.18681/post-442187



It's not hogwash, I've explained this before, but there aren't temp sensors in the hot spots in the pack! You cannot conclude the busbars are not getting hot just because you don't see a hot cell temp reading on the scan tool! The scan tool only shows you the internal cell temps which are nowhere close to to the tabs and busbars which are the things that get hot first. The cell temp sensors are LAST to warm up in the pack.

I can guarantee you running 1050 amps through a 1/8" x 3/4” busbar is going to get it HOT in a jiffy. That's about the size of #0 gauge wire, which is only rated for about 170 amps in an AC power application. In other words, they are running 6 times more current through the busbar than you legally could if it was installed in your house. Ford is already running the thing at the absolute limit with the 5 second rule in place.

This is still my argument: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...due-to-battery-manufacturer.17580/post-428879

Sorry to be late to the party, but I used to work at Bell Laboratories. We had a very, very large battery plant - 48V DC, and bus bars that were probably 1"x1" square copper. Those suckers could carry some current, and with a low internal resistance our battery plant could deliver it quickly. I watched a large crescent wrench turn to vapor when someone dropped it and it bounced across the bus bars. It was amazing fireworks - but makes that hot knife video kinda wimpy.

Seriously, the bus bars themselves might not be up to the task, but all the connection points will get hot in a jiffy, as they always have more resistance and thus make more heat. My guess is this car is what it is with this pack, and we should all enjoy it fully!

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