Down for the count :(

[Astraea]

I appreciate you giving a little background for me! ?

To add to your theory, the first day this happened (1/3) was in the afternoon and the car had been sitting off for only 3 hours and the temp was around 10F at the time. I called ford roadside, and after a 3ish hour wait, I was able to be jumped. Though it took him 2 different jump packs to get it to work and before he got there my husband had drove out with his Edge and had it hooked up to that for around 10 minutes with no luck. Took it out to the dealership Thursday and that uh was a rough day so let's not go there ?. Friday the car didn't move and stayed plugged in at home on a little 15amp level2 charger. Not quick but does the trick ?. Saturday, hop in and all is well, ready to start my work week over hoping all is well and no more problems after a trip to the dealership Thursday. Lunch time rolls around, car has been sitting in roughly -10 weather for about 3 hours. Dead as a door nail when I try to get some food. Call dealership, not very happy but as pleasant as I can be, no technician on the weekend and hope that I can get it there first thing Monday. Waited about 2 hours this time for a tow, not able to jump it so onto the flatbed it goes ( after calling roadside again and re opening the request to tow, no idea why this is necessary). It gets to the dealership closely to me, about 4 miles from my work, and suddenly works? Alright drive it home then I guess. Got it home and right back on the charger it goes. Sunday drive it to work because I have no other choice and cross my fingers. I go out every hour and start it and let it run for about 15 minutes then head back in. I got through the day and drive home and back on the charger. Next day it goes back to the dealer and everything mentioned above happens. Should be all good right? NOPE! Next day, go to leave to get lunch, DEAD. Called around 3pmish for a tow and they didn't show up until nearly 1pm today. It arrived at the dealership 60 miles away roughly 2 hours ago and have not heard anything else. Temps yesterday never got above 0.

????
DING DING DING BELL OF UPDATE!
Just got off the phone with the dealership and they also have a Select, built March 3rd, that just came into the shop this morning with the same issue. Add another to the list I suppose! Mine won't be able to get looked at until tomorrow so will update again when I get more information!

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[littlD]

These are failing at a rate many times what we should think of as normal. Disappointing.

With 2 of these in our house I'm beginning to think about picking a spare battery up, or at least making sure where I can find one in a hurry.

The next recall? Cheaper to replace them than to have them towed in, eh?

I have NEVER had a battery lose it's charge in it's first 5 years let alone it's first, driving since 1974.

EVs in general rely on the 12V for a whole lot more than gas cars do.

 

[Accord07]

EVs in general rely on the 12V for a whole lot more than gas cars do.

On the other hand, gas cars don't carry tens of kWh in another battery pack.

 

[Maquis]

On the other hand, gas cars don't carry tens of kWh in another battery pack.

No, they carry hundreds of kwhr in dead dinosaurs.

 

[DevSecOps]

No, they carry hundreds of kwhr in dead dinosaurs.

The same dead dinosaurs that charge my MME at 12am every day ?

 

[dtbaker61]

????
DING DING DING BELL OF UPDATE!
Just got off the phone with the dealership and they also have a Select, built March 3rd, that just came into the shop this morning with the same issue. Add another to the list I suppose! Mine won't be able to get looked at until tomorrow so will update again when I get more information!

'jump packs' on a tow truck probably will not work.... they are designed to supply cranking amps to get an ICE started rather than to get much energy into a battery.

you will have better success with battery charger, or leaving actual jumper cables connected from a running vehicle for a good solid 20 minutes to get enough energy into the LVB to get you home.

BUT.... if the MME dc-dc, or the hv->LVB modules are faulty, the MME LVB will just die again and again if it is not charging properly or is damaged. If it has died a couple times already, it could well be damaged.

long term fix is a new LVB battery, and to be SURE the dealership has applied all related updates to the LVB charging system.

 

[dixiekidd88]

As an FYI...
@Astraea 's car is an early Job 1 vehicle and had this issue and then the dealer performed the recall. Then she was stranded again and took it back to the dealer and they performed the 21P22 update. Then the next day it is DOA again.

I actually think she is taking these failures with a much happier face than many of us would. I would be livid if that were happening to my car.

Interestingly enough, my car was assembled the day before her car so it is really curious why some owners are having so many problems while others aren't. I wonder if the climate is a contributing factor. I am in AZ... .morning temp here us around 45F and warms up to 70F during the day.
I am guessing many of these LVB system issues are happening to folks who live in the northern areas?

Ours was assembled and completed 10-December-2020 and this same situation happened in a parking lot in August and in the bay area (Northern California) that was 70's-80's. All updates and 'recall' was performed for updating software. Even the major one that came out middle of December.

Christmas eve about 5 hours from our home the car shut down on the interstate with all the warning lights. Had to jump it several times just to get in and enable tow mode. Even with the jump it didn't stay on for long. It was in the 60's when we left our home, drove through 40 degree temps and then boom dead.

Dealer it is at 6 hours from us already replaced with new LVB and still same issues. Now its been almost 3 weeks, no solution and the dealer has reached out to Ford.

Its pretty damn alarming that now I can count AT LEAST 8 people between this forum and FB that have had this happen recently (past 2 months) with cars produced in q3 of this year and as early as ours was manufactured in 2020.

 

[dtbaker61]

Ours was assembled and completed 10-December-2020 and this same situation happened in a parking lot in August and in the bay area (Northern California) that was 70's-80's. All updates and 'recall' was performed for updating software. Even the major one that came out middle of December.

Christmas eve about 5 hours from our home the car shut down on the interstate with all the warning lights. Had to jump it several times just to get in and enable tow mode. Even with the jump it didn't stay on for long. It was in the 60's when we left our home, drove through 40 degree temps and then boom dead.

Dealer it is at 6 hours from us already replaced with new LVB and still same issues. Now its been almost 3 weeks, no solution and the dealer has reached out to Ford.

Its pretty damn alarming that now I can count AT LEAST 8 people between this forum and FB that have had this happen recently (past 2 months) with cars produced in q3 of this year and as early as ours was manufactured in 2020.

I am getting increasingly curious about this.... bad batteries, bad modules, bad dc-dc.... hard to tell, but certainly something popping up way more than acceptable.

The problem may or may not be recorded in ODB2 data, but that's pretty hard for most people to extract. I would SUGGEST that anybody having these issues buy an inexpensive ODB2 unit, capture some data, and perhaps people on the forum can help steer in the right direction.

OR, get a cheap current monitor like an Efergy wireless unit usually used to monitor household current, and see if, when, and how much the LVB is actually getting charged! If you are willing to pull off the 'beauty cover' on the rear and drivers side, and install one of these little guys, it will record current and kWhr fed into the LVB

https://www.amazon.com/Efergy-4-0-Wireless-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B001Q1G4WK/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?

alternatively, get a voltmeter that plugs into the 'power outlet' for $10 or so, and keep an eye on it.... knowing that if it doesn't show 14v while vehicle is on, and at least 11.9 when off, then you are in trouble.

https://www.amazon.com/Zeltauto-Cig...ltmeter/dp/B00VL9JZ0K/ref=asc_df_B00VL9JZ0K/?

 

[dixiekidd88]

I am getting increasingly curious about this.... bad batteries, bad modules, bad dc-dc.... hard to tell, but certainly something popping up way more than acceptable.

The problem may or may not be recorded in ODB2 data, but that's pretty hard for most people to extract. I would SUGGEST that anybody having these issues buy an inexpensive ODB2 unit, capture some data, and perhaps people on the forum can help steer in the right direction.

OR, get a cheap current monitor like an Efergy wireless unit usually used to monitor household current, and see if, when, and how much the LVB is actually getting charged! If you are willing to pull off the 'beauty cover' on the rear and drivers side, and install one of these little guys, it will record current and kWhr fed into the LVB

https://www.amazon.com/Efergy-4-0-Wireless-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B001Q1G4WK/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?

alternatively, get a voltmeter that plugs into the 'power outlet' for $10 or so, and keep an eye on it.... knowing that if it doesn't show 14v while vehicle is on, and at least 11.9 when off, then you are in trouble.

https://www.amazon.com/Zeltauto-Cig...ltmeter/dp/B00VL9JZ0K/ref=asc_df_B00VL9JZ0K/?

I think it has something to do with a component for sure, not a battery or software.

Our mobile charger went bad after 6 months or so, and got a replacement and no issues since. I compared them both looked the same with the exception of the actual plug that connects into the car, seemed a bit bulkier and more solid. I also noted the back of the original one said Made in China, whereas the new one stated Made in Mexico....

I think there are some bad parts that have been used in some of these units and it hasn't been pinpointed as of yet where or what the breakdown is.

Hopefully Ford figures it out soon, as many have already done Lemon Law and returned their vehicle. If a solution isn't found soon, we will be doing the same. But getting a 22 GT instead

 

[SnBGC]

I appreciate you giving a little background for me! ?

To add to your theory, the first day this happened (1/3) was in the afternoon and the car had been sitting off for only 3 hours and the temp was around 10F at the time. I called ford roadside, and after a 3ish hour wait, I was able to be jumped. Though it took him 2 different jump packs to get it to work and before he got there my husband had drove out with his Edge and had it hooked up to that for around 10 minutes with no luck. Took it out to the dealership Thursday and that uh was a rough day so let's not go there ?. Friday the car didn't move and stayed plugged in at home on a little 15amp level2 charger. Not quick but does the trick ?. Saturday, hop in and all is well, ready to start my work week over hoping all is well and no more problems after a trip to the dealership Thursday. Lunch time rolls around, car has been sitting in roughly -10 weather for about 3 hours. Dead as a door nail when I try to get some food. Call dealership, not very happy but as pleasant as I can be, no technician on the weekend and hope that I can get it there first thing Monday. Waited about 2 hours this time for a tow, not able to jump it so onto the flatbed it goes ( after calling roadside again and re opening the request to tow, no idea why this is necessary). It gets to the dealership closely to me, about 4 miles from my work, and suddenly works? Alright drive it home then I guess. Got it home and right back on the charger it goes. Sunday drive it to work because I have no other choice and cross my fingers. I go out every hour and start it and let it run for about 15 minutes then head back in. I got through the day and drive home and back on the charger. Next day it goes back to the dealer and everything mentioned above happens. Should be all good right? NOPE! Next day, go to leave to get lunch, DEAD. Called around 3pmish for a tow and they didn't show up until nearly 1pm today. It arrived at the dealership 60 miles away roughly 2 hours ago and have not heard anything else. Temps yesterday never got above 0.

Good data points.
Sounds very cold! I think we all tend to underestimate the effect that cold weather can have on a battery. The HVB usable capacity is severely reduced when it's -10F outside so you know the LVB suffers a similar fate. I have coworkers in Wisconsin run extension cords out to their cars when possible to keep the block heaters plugged in. Others go out every few hours during their work day to start the car because it gets so cold.

Ford had to add two batteries to their PowerStroke trucks. Partially due to the cranking amps required to spin a high compression engine but also partially for cold weather starting. If they wanted their trucks and vans to be certified for use as an ambulance or other emergency services then those vehicles need to be able to start in -10F without external aid.

My personal opinion is the battery in these vehicles isn't strong enough. There is a thread here where someone found a suitable larger size battery of the same type and it fits in the location with very minor modification. When my LVB dies........and it will die, they all do, then I will get the larger/stronger battery as a replacement. Just saying...

 

[Carsinmyblood]

Good data points.
Sounds very cold! I think we all tend to underestimate the effect that cold weather can have on a battery. The HVB usable capacity is severely reduced when it's -10F outside so you know the LVB suffers a similar fate. I have coworkers in Wisconsin run extension cords out to their cars when possible to keep the block heaters plugged in. Others go out every few hours during their work day to start the car because it gets so cold.

Ford had to add two batteries to their PowerStroke trucks. Partially due to the cranking amps required to spin a high compression engine but also partially for cold weather starting. If they wanted their trucks and vans to be certified for use as an ambulance or other emergency services then those vehicles need to be able to start in -10F without external aid.

My personal opinion is the battery in these vehicles isn't strong enough. There is a thread here where someone found a suitable larger size battery of the same type and it fits in the location with very minor modification. When my LVB dies........and it will die, they all do, then I will get the larger/stronger battery as a replacement. Just saying...

Not a bad idea to keep a spare in the frunk in extreme climates and keep a charge on it just in case. Seems extreme but for now it may save a major inconvenience and down time while the inexperienced mechs at your dealer scratch their heads.

I seriously smell a battery upgrade coming in a silent recall. Those who need it get it .

 

[Astraea]

Good data points.
Sounds very cold! I think we all tend to underestimate the effect that cold weather can have on a battery. The HVB usable capacity is severely reduced when it's -10F outside so you know the LVB suffers a similar fate. I have coworkers in Wisconsin run extension cords out to their cars when possible to keep the block heaters plugged in. Others go out every few hours during their work day to start the car because it gets so cold.

Ford had to add two batteries to their PowerStroke trucks. Partially due to the cranking amps required to spin a high compression engine but also partially for cold weather starting. If they wanted their trucks and vans to be certified for use as an ambulance or other emergency services then those vehicles need to be able to start in -10F without external aid.

My personal opinion is the battery in these vehicles isn't strong enough. There is a thread here where someone found a suitable larger size battery of the same type and it fits in the location with very minor modification. When my LVB dies........and it will die, they all do, then I will get the larger/stronger battery as a replacement. Just saying...

I made sure to mention to them that they check to see if the LVB has been damaged from going dead so I wonder if I'm allowed to make the suggestion to them to upgrade the battery to a larger one? ? My guess is that is a no no so I'll probably get a similar replacement if that's a solution they try. But I wonder if this fix is something that @Ford Motor Company could look into on their end as a viable option and test it. Perhaps the LVB size and power capabilities was just an oversight for these. Someone did mention, I think here or another thread, that the LVB does significantly more in an EV than an ICE. Perhaps it's a place to start with the solution. But I'm really thinking that somewhere in the last two software updates we got, especially when someone said it had to do with thr APIM? module, which has something to do with the charging system for the LVB, messed with it in a very bad way. The only solution may unfortunately be another update or perhaps pulling these last 2 updates that seem to be where most of these issues happened for people. Not sure if they are capable of reversing an update or not, but could be a place to start and comb through the code to maybe find an issue.

 

[Blanked]

There is a thread here where someone found a suitable larger size battery of the same type and it fits in the location with very minor modification.

Do you have a link to that thread? Quick search on phone not successful. Thanks in advance!

 

[SnBGC]

Do you have a link to that thread? Quick search on phone not successful. Thanks in advance!

This might be it?
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ac-delco-12v-mme-50-ah-chevy-spark-cadillac-battery.12747/


Another possible option to explore is to find a friendly worker at the parts counter and have them check to see if the police version of the Mach-E has a different battery size. The battery tray is physically larger than needed for the LVB we get so I have to believe that isn't by accident. Unnecessary weight is the silent enemy of EVs so it makes you wonder about the battery tray dimensions.
?

 

[Astraea]

This might be it?
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/ac-delco-12v-mme-50-ah-chevy-spark-cadillac-battery.12747/


Another possible option to explore is to find a friendly worker at the parts counter and have them check to see if the police version of the Mach-E has a different battery size. The battery tray is physically larger than needed for the LVB we get so I have to believe that isn't by accident. Unnecessary weight is the silent enemy of EVs so it makes you wonder about the battery tray dimensions.
?

I went over and read that thread, very interesting indeed! And curious how his experiment ended up going with the larger battery and similar cold to what I have been experiencing (if this is indeed a contributing factor). I'll try to do some research to see if I can find the answer to the police MMe battery size tonight so I don't rope more people at the dealership into my problem in the morning. ?

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