Electrical Service Panel Upgrade Suggestions?

[woody]

We have a 200a panel with an additional critical load panel. 14 slots available on main and 7 available on critical load panels.
We are 100% electric: EVSE; 2 EVs: heat pump; heat pump water heater; solar; battery backup; etc.
No gas on property.
(Electrician installed panels in one day. The utility company was, as always, a hassle. Electrician was experienced and knowledgeable. Consequently he was able to handle the utility company nonsense)

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[21st Century Pony]

I guess one thing to keep in mind is what is the possibility of a second EV in the near future.

We have handled the arrival of two EVs by installing a Grizzl-E Duo dumb EVSE which has two 24-foot cords and charging handles.

The Grizzl-E Duo works by alternating short bursts of 40 amps between the two cars if both cars are plugged in. When only one car is plugged in, it gets the whole 40-amp charge.

The advantage of the Grizzl-E Duo for this thread is that its 50-amp breaker takes only one 240V double slot in the panel.

The other advantage is that these 24-foot handle cords are so long they'll reach pretty much anywhere we need them at.

 

[kdonnel]

Plan to stay in the house awhile?

You might consider 400 amp service. There might not be a big difference in price between a 200 amp upgrade and a 400 amp upgrade.

 

[Maquis]

Plan to stay in the house awhile?

You might consider 400 amp service. There might not be a big difference in price between a 200 amp upgrade and a 400 amp upgrade.

With some utilities, you can’t upgrade to a 400 unless you prove need with a load calculation.

But if you can, it’s not a bad idea. The only required extra expense would likely be the meter base or meter/main depending on the setup. You can install a single 200A panel now, and add the second one if and when the need arises.

 

[Hammered]

With some utilities, you can’t upgrade to a 400 unless you prove need with a load calculation.

But if you can, it’s not a bad idea. The only required extra expense would likely be the meter base or meter/main depending on the setup. You can install a single 200A panel now, and add the second one if and when the need arises.

The utility here will install a 320 amp meter fed by twin 4/0 if you simply say you need power. That's the default. They'll upgrade your transformer if required, might speak to engineering to find an upgrade. We told them we were going to install some tankless and could have several welders running across 3 structures. They put in a 70kva monster for free. Then not even 2 years later lightning blew it up and fused its core. $$$$ on their part, LOL

 

[timbop]

I'm curious, how many slots do your respective load centers have? I only have 20 slots, and they are all full.

My Siemens has 40 slots.

 

[devmach-e]

We have handled the arrival of two EVs by installing a Grizzl-E Duo dumb EVSE which has two 24-foot cords and charging handles.

The Grizzl-E Duo works by alternating short bursts of 40 amps between the two cars if both cars are plugged in. When only one car is plugged in, it gets the whole 40-amp charge.

That's not how it works. When there are 2 vehicles plugged in, the Grizzl-E advertises 20A to car A and 20A to car B. If one of the cars completes charging, it advertises 8A to the car that completed, and 32A to the car that is still charging.

From: https://grizzl-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Grizzl-E_Duo_v5.0.pdf
See page 22.

 

[Dadams]

My Siemens has 40 slots.

Mine is 20 slots but they all can have a duplex breaker so I can have 40 circuits. That is if all were only 120v

 

[Hammered]

For home charging that's overnight, you don't need a large charger. A 25a charger on a 30a circuit (10ga) wire, delivers 48kW (~144 miles) in 8 hours. Consider how long the vehicle is parked overnight for. 10 hours? That's 60kw (~180 miles).

 

[21st Century Pony]

That's not how it works. When there are 2 vehicles plugged in, the Grizzl-E advertises 20A to car A and 20A to car B. If one of the cars completes charging, it advertises 8A to the car that completed, and 32A to the car that is still charging.

From: https://grizzl-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Grizzl-E_Duo_v5.0.pdf
See page 22.

DevMach-e, I stand corrected... it's been a couple of months since the Grizzl-E install. The Grizzl-E EVSE does indeed split 40 amps between two plugged-in cars. It alternates communication protocols between the two cars every few seconds and that is what's visible on its single diode blinker - its two alternating colors = two alternating cars.

That's what we see every day and it caused my incorrect comment.

However, for the discussion in this thread my comment remains of value - how to charge two cars using one EVSE and only one 240B breaker.

 

[21st Century Pony]

That's not how it works. When there are 2 vehicles plugged in, the Grizzl-E advertises 20A to car A and 20A to car B. If one of the cars completes charging, it advertises 8A to the car that completed, and 32A to the car that is still charging.

From: https://grizzl-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Grizzl-E_Duo_v5.0.pdf
See page 22.

DevMach-e, I stand corrected... it's been a couple of months since the Grizzl-E install. The Grizzl-E EVSE does indeed split 40 amps between two plugged-in cars. It alternates communication protocols between the two cars every few seconds and that is what's visible on its single diode blinker - its two alternating colors = two alternating cars.

That's what we see every day it caused my incorrect comment.

However, for the discussion in this thread my comment remains of value - how to charge two cars using one EVSE and only one 240B breaker.

 

[timbop]

Mine is 20 slots but they all can have a duplex breaker so I can have 40 circuits. That is if all were only 120v

I don't know if siemens does the twin breakers in a single slot, but as I said I am good, although I will be putting in at least 1 minisplit heat pump and another electric water heater to replace a gas one. Worst case is a subpanel later on:

 

[devmach-e]

DevMach-e, I stand corrected... it's been a couple of months since the Grizzl-E install. The Grizzl-E EVSE does indeed split 40 amps between two plugged-in cars. It alternates communication protocols between the two cars every few seconds and that is what's visible on its single diode blinker - its two alternating colors = two alternating cars.

That's what we see every day it caused my incorrect comment.

However, for the discussion in this thread my comment remains of value - how to charge two cars using one EVSE and only one 240B breaker.

I wouldn't say it is alternating communications protocols between the two cars. It is more accurate to say that is merely alternating which car it is reporting the status for. They really should've redesigned the unit so that it had two status lights, one for each car.

If we get a second EV for the house, I will definitely look into this unit as a replacement for the single 32A unit we have (AeroVironment EVSE-RS purchased from a GM dealer).

 

[ATL]

The utility here will install a 320 amp meter fed by twin 4/0 if you simply say you need power.

Lucky...Utilities differ widely in their policies. Some seem more anxious to actually sell their product, others may be driven by some alternate mandate. Costs upstream of the meter can be a huge consideration. If infrastructure is overhead, it can be upgraded for increased capacity quite economically. If underground, excavation costs can be an impediment. Conductor and bus runs, especially in subdivisions, might affect several other customers; therefore it's always a case by case evaluation.

If you think EV owners are early adopters, smart panels are really on the edge because there is so much change in standards, protocols, etc. I upgraded to a 200 A panel and was lucky the underground to my meter base was sufficient to allow that. I put my old (excellent condition) 100 A panel in my garage as a sub. Lots of circuits, lots of capacity, and easy access for future needs. That was the best solution for me.

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