Electrify America stations are regularly full now - is EA finally making money?

[EELinneman]

Quartzsite is almost always full, and last time I was there 2 of the 4 EA chargers were being repaired and not available. The food in the truck stop sucks, but at least there is a place to sit and wait if you buy something.

What has EA done that universally makes their chargers Charlie Sheen levels of unstable? Not beeing snarky here, I really do wonder what they did wrong, why it has not improved and why they appear to be completely unconcerned about their place in the market.

Being first has some advantage, but this is Apple Newton type of failure that seems to be unique to EA.

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[AKgrampy]

What has EA done that universally makes their chargers Charlie Sheen levels of unstable? Not beeing snarky here, I really do wonder what they did wrong, why it has not improved and why they appear to be completely unconcerned about their place in the market.

Being first has some advantage, but this is Apple Newton type of failure that seems to be unique to EA.

I may be speaking out of ignorance but didn’t they get the VW money? If so then getting paid up front does not require a successful final product - unfortunately.

 

[RickMachE]

What has EA done that universally makes their chargers Charlie Sheen levels of unstable? Not beeing snarky here, I really do wonder what they did wrong, why it has not improved and why they appear to be completely unconcerned about their place in the market.

Being first has some advantage, but this is Apple Newton type of failure that seems to be unique to EA.

This has been discussed a few times.

EA selected equipment from multiple different vendors over time. Older equipment is now having increasing issues.

EA's business plan / agreement specifies rollout in a specific manner, with a heavy weight to California. I believe that there are no penalties or such for not hitting minimal service levels, but haven't read all the agreements.

Unconcerned? Can you tell me where you read that EA said they are unconcerned with their current situation?

 

[dbsb3233]

What has EA done that universally makes their chargers Charlie Sheen levels of unstable? Not beeing snarky here, I really do wonder what they did wrong, why it has not improved and why they appear to be completely unconcerned about their place in the market.

Being first has some advantage, but this is Apple Newton type of failure that seems to be unique to EA.

They trusted that ABB and Signet would make dependable DCFC hardware. Oops.

Just imagine if those manufacturers built the kind of hardware they were supposed to. This would be a whole different discussion and legacy adoption of NACS never would have happened.

 

[silverelan]

What has EA done that universally makes their chargers Charlie Sheen levels of unstable? Not beeing snarky here, I really do wonder what they did wrong, why it has not improved and why they appear to be completely unconcerned about their place in the market.

Being first has some advantage, but this is Apple Newton type of failure that seems to be unique to EA.

TL;DR - Fast. Good. Cheap. Pick two.

EA rapidly built their basic national network by like 2018-19 with Frankenstein off the shelf hardware cobbled together by multiple suppliers. It was crappy then and hasn’t gotten much better over the years.

Their latest chargers are supposedly better (i used them Tuesday and they still suck) but are still a generation or two behind the latest equipment now being used in Europe.

EA should cancel their contracts with BTC Power and SK Signet and just go with proven hardware providers like Kempower, Alpitronic, or even Tesla.

 

[spicy_taco]

This has been discussed a few times.

EA selected equipment from multiple different vendors over time. Older equipment is now having increasing issues.

But it's not just older EA equipment that is having problems. On I-5 in CA (Kettleman City to be exact) there is a barely year old EA station with 10 chargers. It's rare that 10 of them are ever in service.

 

[AZBill]

Tesla uses Model 3/Y components in their V3 charging cabinets which keeps costs down and serviceability up. Combined with Tesla’s Supercharger factory in Buffalo cranking these things out in scale with some nifty pre-fabricated configurations for easy plug & play installations, Tesla has charging figured out. There’s literally nothing stopping EA from abandoning Signet and BTC and switching to Tesla V4 hardware.

EA and EVgo made strategic mistakes by not becoming their own supplier. I do not understand why VW (or Ford) didn’t just buy a DCFC equipment manufacturer or start their own production division. They’d have full control over design & costs, and like Tesla, be able to become a DCFC supplier to other CPOs.

Tesla currently only supports 470v in their chargers. That means they can use a simple rectifier off the 480v three phase transformer. That hardware is simple, and thus more reliable. CCS must support 920v, so they must add a dc-dc converter.

Once Tesla decides to support the higher voltages, their reliability will be affected, at least due to that extra hardware.

 

[SoCalPony]

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/vw-settlement-consent-decrees

There are charger uptime requirements specified, including how long they have to fix a broken unit. I don't believe there is any enforcement mechanism.

Page 26 of 164 of the third linked document states fines for inoperable equipment starting at $1,000 per day escalating to $50,000 per day after 31 days. That might be for non-compliance with the agreement, not inoperable chargers. Lots of legalese for those so inclined.

In any case, the state of the EA charging infrastructure is well known.

Also found this:
https://www.justice.gov/sites/defau.../vw_partial_2l_cd_and_appendices_docketed.pdf

Section 3.3.2.5 states that the sites need to be maintained for 10 years.

SCPony

 

[ARK]

Since some people correctly pointed out this thread was made during a holiday weekend, I wanted to post pics of the charging situation on a random Monday evening during the workweek. You can see that LA is chock-full again.

Even the “open” stations are not really open. Someone is coming or going, or it’s a chademo only slot open, or it’s a L2 charger, that’s free this image does not do the situation full justice, they are basically all full.

Interestingly though, all the slots at Quartzsite on the road between LA and Phoenix are available. I guess it makes sense, it’s not a holiday weekend, though still a bit surprising that no one during rush hour is making this drive between California and Arizona.

 

[Space_Pony]

Wow, I guess everybody should just go home and charge.

 

[buzznwood]

Wow, I guess everybody should just go home and charge.

And not take advantage of your 2/3 years worth of free charging. It is not the EA stations full of people road tripping that are full most of the time..

 

[ARK]

And not take advantage of your 2/3 years worth of free charging. It is not the EA stations full of people road tripping that are full most of the time..

That’s exactly why I’ve kept my eye on it. If Ford doesn’t extend the expiration date of our free charging credits again, I lose mine in February 2024.

So I’ve been keeping watch over the past several weeks to see when I might charge without inconveniencing myself. Out of maybe the 5-7 chances I’ve gotten where I happen to be in a plaza or nearby or something like that and it would be a good time to charge, I’ve only succeeded one time, they’ve been full every other time and since I can home charge I haven’t bothered waiting. It is mostly Ioniq 5s and Id.4s doing this.

 

[ckt]

That’s exactly why I’ve kept my eye on it. If Ford doesn’t extend the expiration date of our free charging credits again, I lose mine in February 2024.

So I’ve been keeping watch over the past several weeks to see when I might charge without inconveniencing myself. Out of maybe the 5-7 chances I’ve gotten where I happen to be in a plaza or nearby or something like that and it would be a good time to charge, I’ve only succeeded one time, they’ve been full every other time and since I can home charge I haven’t bothered waiting. It is mostly Ioniq 5s and Id.4s doing this.

When do they typically expire? I got my Mach-e in Feb 22'

 

[ARK]

When do they typically expire? I got my Mach-e in Feb 22'

Well it was tied to the Blue Oval Charging Network and the free trial would end after three years, but Ford sent an email this morning saying it will be indefinitely free.

 

[ckt]

Well it was tied to the Blue Oval Charging Network and the free trial would end after three years, but Ford sent an email this morning saying it will be indefinitely free.

That's great! Now I don't feel too bad about keeping the car for longer than intended.

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