How the Mach-E frunk was redesigned and simplified

[Mr. Toejam]

Agreed. The tear-down videos were fascinating, but when Sandy got on his whine-rants, it was off-putting. It's one thing to suggest that something could be done another way, but it's another to rant about this, that, or another thing, all of which he was not involved with and therefore, couldn't speak to the conditions and limitations encountered during its design and manufacturing. He drank the Tesla Kool-Aid pretty hard and I just stopped watching the videos altogether.

As a design engineer (electronics and software), I know that there are many considerations that go into a final product. There are competing goals from the various disciplines (marketing/sales, engineering, manufacturing, testing, and support/repair). The end product is a compromise of all those disciplines to make and sell the best product possible at a price that people are willing to pay and in a timeframe that makes it marketable.

There are plenty of things that could and should be better about the Mach-E, but I went into my purchase (lease) knowing what I was getting. Every vehicle is a matter of trade-offs, as there is no perfect vehicle that delivers every possible feature, reliability, and an attractive price. Munro's videos were part of that knowledge, but too many consumers put too much stock in his commentary and declared themselves experts in vehicle design and engineering.

Thank you for adding your perspective on the issues that are possible in the manufacturing side of things!

"whine-rant".... . I tend to describe him as preachy and egotistical (something you occasionally see in people who have been in a single industry for a bulk of their their careers...automotive and aerospace people especially. sorry if I offended anyone out there). I have a "...here we go..." detection system. When someone starts off with giving you their resume on where they have worked and their experiences, then proceed to tell you how you should be doing things...my alarm goes off.

I always did my best to NOT presume that I know/knew everything and that I have all of the answers (can't say that I am always successful at conveying this ... but I try ).

The Mach-e was mostly a clean sheet design. Not a compliance car conversion. Ford did an amazing job.

Their real weakness...probably the software and systems. My guess is that they have been dog piling fixes on top of the original dog pile (I mean system architecture) and it has gotten to a point where if they fix one thing they might break something else. Which means regression testing is out of control. Thus the UEV is getting a new architecture and we are not seeing updates (Ford is moving on). Sound about right, Scott?

I remember one of the Monroe videos saying "Ford is using bolts hold some plastic panels and Tesla uses snap in features which is better for cost and manufacturability". But Ford also knows that in some places, a snap-in doesn't work over the long haul. After 4 years, my Mach-e is still pretty tight with no real squeaks and rattles (except where I did/broke something). Ever take a ride in a 2017-2022 Model 3 or a 2020-2024 Model Y when they were new or a few years old? Fit and finish, NHV, squeaks and rattles were horrible. But they got a pass from Monroe and most owners because they were focused on the innovations and new ideas and not the quality of the car. Heck, ever take a ride in a 2024 or 2025 Model S? Fit and finish still isn't that great. The innovations were amazing, but the build quality alone is not acceptable for $40k - $100k cars, let alone a $20k Corrola.

I guess I am just saying that Monroe and Associates are good at pointing things out and giving insight and ideas into a design. It doesn't mean they are always right or always wrong. They are an experienced second or third set of outside eyes, and it seems like they are pretty good at that. But like Scott said, there are so many other things that must be considered when designing something.

If they were the absolute, definitive go-to on these issues, don't you think one of the mega companies out there would have paid out a billion (chump change in the corporate world) and gobbled them up, even if it was to just keep them out of the competition's hands? BTW, I am not on a Monroe smear campaign. I do however take their videos with a grain of salt (though this is probably the first one I have watched since they finished the Mach-e series). Thanks @Bonehead.

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[Teslaeata]

I still have my dividers in my '21 Job 1 and I use the frunk A LOT. Takeout, additional charging cables/adapters (my Bosch VCI for FDRS lives in there), headrests when I need max space in the cabin with the seats folded, etc. We're a single-car family, so it's a do-everything car for us and I have no complaints about it, apart from maybe needing a few cm of space here and there. The cupholders are fantastic spots not just for cups/bottles, but also for small bits and pieces when working on the car.

I guess it all depends on the life you lead. If you're all about being prim and proper and have things super organized, don't have messes, don't have leftovers or have LOTS of leftovers, and don't feel the need to carry 120v and J1772 extension cords, then the frunk is probably a lot less useful.

When I “worked” dividers were out to fit in there all I needed to carry, funnily enough never felt the need or urge to put any baby in there, maybe that’s an America thing but now in retirement dividers are back in to stop what little is in there from rattling about

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

something you occasionally see in people who have been in a single industry for a bulk of their their careers...automotive and aerospace people

Hey! I resemble that remark.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

When I “worked” dividers were out to fit in there all I needed to carry, funnily enough never felt the need or urge to put any baby in there, maybe that’s an America thing but now in retirement dividers are out to stop what little is in there from rattling about

The EU and the UK are composed of real countries. It's a USA thing.

 

[Blue highway]

It can be. I would say most OEMs try to design so that things don’t break, “quickly”. If it affects the COO, Cost of Ownership, then they make the part cheap and easy to replace. That should be defined in the design specs and it should be a parameter in your DFMEA. Companies like Monroe aren’t always privy to all of the design specs, especially when it comes to the marketing aspects and use case of a vehicle.

The manufacturing engineering in me loves to see, and is amazed when things like a mega casting comes out. But the farmer genes in me freaks out when things like a me casting comes out. How do you repair it? Can you repair it? How can I afford to repair it? So it’s a case by case situation on how far you go.

There was an interview one time where Elon said he wasn’t worried if the mega casting gets cracked. I think he said a Tesla customer which just go in by another Tesla. That’s the attitude of a lot of startup companies that I’ve worked at and that’s why I stopped working at startup companies.

I really don’t watch too many Monroe live videos. When I do, I’m watching them because I’m interested in how things come apart and go back together. But honestly, I turned the volume down. There is a high amount of arrogance in their videos. there’s definitely educational information in there and entertainment value. But in the end, a lot of their videos are commercials for their company trying to sell their services.

... well yes, the reason the videos are made are simply advertising. No other purpose... but I find them generally interesting.

 

[SWO]

Munro is a cancer on automotive design for consumers.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

I get what you are saying, but I doubt a company as large as Ford "skipped" having designs reviews. Large, legacy companies like Ford, GM, Boeing, etc have it in their DNA to have meetings. They have meetings to discuss or prepare for other meetings. But they are also burdened with decades of lawsuits and lawyers coming at them for every little thing that they tend to overdesign and then back off when they can.

Remember back when the Chief Engineer, Donna Dickson, went onto Monroe live. She explained multiple times that they were venturing into unknown waters with a long range, BEV so they designed things with a large margin of error. There were multiple things that Monroe was questioning and she replied that they are already updating their designs.

But keep in mind, Ford needed to get a vehicle into the market. The were design compromises to be made. Injection molding is tough. I am still convinced that half of it is black magic. Molding tall and thin walls is difficult and eliminating sink marks and flow lines and weld lines, takes a lot of time. So how much time do you spend on a tub to knock down $25-$35? The time spent/lost would be more expensive than $1.2M-$1.5M a year that bracket is costing you. Like Teslaeata-Mark said...he got the frunk that he likes and that is what ford was concerned about.

And remember, Ford was telling people to use it as an Ice Chest as a marketing gimmick. Any guesses on how much weight the tub would be carrying when it was full of ice and drinks? Maybe that was the reason for the brackets. No one bought into the gimmick...thats OK...get rid of the brackets.

My guess is it took over a year to eliminate the metal brackets and replace them with the molded structure and retain the same strength. The design changes can be done in CAD in a few months but the actual mold tooling and mold process (temp, pressure, cooling curves, etc...) would take up a bulk of the time.

I look at the original Frunk. The dividers were there to stop a kid from getting locked in the trunk. Same for the escape button with the light around it (and yes, the light turns off when the hood is closed). That was 100% a "CYA" design to fix a problem that they didn't have. But if a kid did get locked in the Frunk, the news would read "Ford should know better". And on the other hand Tesla didn't worry about it because their news line would be "Tesla is new so how would they know". Ford has to play it safe. Once everyone said " those dividers are not needed", then Ford could get rid of them and they did. Public acceptance is important.

As a Mfg Engineer, I have given my DFM and DFMEA recommendations with the knowledge of the product and the customer expectations (outside consultants don't always have this knowledge). I have also watched outside consultants come in and take designs sideways and also make outrageous claims to cost savings. My previous company spent $50k on a consultant that claimed that his changes and multiple injections houses could save us 30% on a part ($150k per year). The head of mechanical design and I called his bluff, because we knew he couldn't. We handed him a PO to make a years worth and he was not able to find anyone willing to make his design for the price he claimed or deliver on time (6 month additional delay).

This video is an advertisement for Monroe. I am sure they have highly talented people. But as the the manufacturing guy, it is always easy to look at a design in hindsight and say "what were you thinking...you should have done it this way"...especially when you don't know the background that got them there.

We have to be results, not process-oriented. I’m sure they had the “meeting”. But what came out of it was less than ideal.

And the original design was not just “sub-optimal”. If it were, Ford would have punted to the next gen to fix. They didn’t. They fixed it right away. And what they came up with was BRILLIANT! And they deserve a lot of credit for it.

Btw, GM’s ignition recall that caused the death of 169 people was over a $0.90 savings. So $30 a car is a shit ton of money. Pls remember that at the time Ford tooled Cuautitlán Assembly for 300,000 units on a 3 crew operation.

Lastly, if you really think molding is black magic, I’d love to take you on a tour of a steel mill. Or a stamping or body shop. That my friend is where witchcraft happens. Insane level of complexity. Disclaimer: I’m a metal melter, bender, and welder. So I’m clearly biased.

Note: my intent is not to argue, simply to clarify some aspects that I respectfully disagree with you on.

 

[Mark813]

Smashing glass is a whole lot easier and faster than prying open the hood. The trunk area is far from secure.

You have to pay extra for the cargo cover now if you don't want thieves to peek in your window and break the glass. J/k

I'm one of the frunk users because I hate stuff rolling or sliding around in my car.

So the rear storage in the hatchback area is for when I actually go to the store or bring someone something home and then it's empty again.

I use the frunk for common stuff that doesn't matter if it's stored in a hotter temp. Gym clothes extra shopping bags for aldi etc

Under the sub floor I took the styrofoam charger holder (and mobile charger) out. So I also have storage under there for stuff that needs to be kept more temperate or just out of the way. I put some extra foam in my laptop bag to protect the laptop from our bouncy suspension. But stuff like an umbrella, battery jump box, work flyers, business cards paraphernalia stays tight under there, mostly organized and hidden.

I like that I can keep my Interior and hatchback area mostly empty that way.

Most days stuff like the laptop bag rides in the car on the way to work and during the work day but then can go in the subtrunk area after if I go to the gym or dinner with friends etc.

Coming from a RAV4 a lot of this stuff was in the hatchback area and I would try to keep it organized and not sliding around with crates and other organizers. Or previous years with a sedan figure out ways to organize the trunk.

And Fridays you empty your work stuff out to the corner of the garage so you can have your trunk or hatch area for the weekend. I'm not OCD but have tendencies lol.

If I upgraded to a 25 or 26 I'd have to take a a few minutes to see if I could fit all my stuff from this 24 into the new model and see what couldn't stay with the smaller frunk being a factor.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

You have to pay extra for the cargo cover now if you don't want thieves to peek in your window and break the glass. J/k

I'm one of the frunk users because I hate stuff rolling or sliding around in my car.

So the rear storage in the hatchback area is for when I actually go to the store or bring someone something home and then it's empty again.

I use the frunk for common stuff that doesn't matter if it's stored in a hotter temp. Gym clothes extra shopping bags for aldi etc

Under the sub floor I took the styrofoam charger holder (and mobile charger) out. So I also have storage under there for stuff that needs to be kept more temperate or just out of the way. I put some extra foam in my laptop bag to protect the laptop from our bouncy suspension. But stuff like an umbrella, battery jump box, work flyers, business cards paraphernalia stays tight under there, mostly organized and hidden.

I like that I can keep my Interior and hatchback area mostly empty that way.

Most days stuff like the laptop bag rides in the car on the way to work and during the work day but then can go in the subtrunk area after if I go to the gym or dinner with friends etc.

Coming from a RAV4 a lot of this stuff was in the hatchback area and I would try to keep it organized and not sliding around with crates and other organizers. Or previous years with a sedan figure out ways to organize the trunk.

And Fridays you empty your work stuff out to the corner of the garage so you can have your trunk or hatch area for the weekend. I'm not OCD but have tendencies lol.

If I upgraded to a 25 or 26 I'd have to take a a few minutes to see if I could fit all my stuff from this 24 into the new model and see what couldn't stay with the smaller frunk being a factor.

Im a regular frunk user. Most often due to stopping at both grocery stores in town. I also use it regularly as a cooler to keep cold stuff cold when I’m shopping in Kona (≈50 miles ow).

I cannot imagine having the glovebox as a frunk version tbh.

 

[Ahlarict]

When I “worked” dividers were out to fit in there all I needed to carry, funnily enough never felt the need or urge to put any baby in there, maybe that’s an America thing but now in retirement dividers are out to stop what little is in there from rattling about

When my eldest was still "optimally frunk-sized", it would've been an attractive option worth much more than $500 to me! My daughter went through a phase where she would cry whenever we drove anywhere at night. When she started getting more verbal, you could just make out "no yahtzit yites!" (baby-pidgin translation: "I don't like the street lights!!!") - thing is, she wasn't the type that could just "cry herself out" like any normal baby. Nope. She would cry until she puked, and then cry more, louder still, in an ever-ascending crescendo that was perfectly calibrated to ensure that the end our journey and the end of our wits "coalesced" into a single instant of bedlam in our driveway when I turned the engine off. Ideal candidate for a frunk-baby, if you ask me. Fortunately, she grew out of it and today, I very rarely feel the impulse to stuff anyone in my frunk!

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

Isn't this actually bad for the consumer? One giant piece that breaks and you have to replace the entire thing. Different parts and something breaks and you can replace just that part.

It is probably cheaper from a manufacturing and assembly perspective but too many things are like this now and just have to be tossed when it breaks because they are unrepairable.

No. The redesigned one should be far more reliable than the original. The lack of covers to break, fasteners to be lost, heatstaked plastic to become brittle and break, etc., all make more a far more reliable product.

 

[HuntingPudel]

I know, its crazy, I mean it never even stopped me from putting the baby in there - just sort of sit them up and lean them against the divider, toss some foam and a few marshmallows in there and you are good to go.

Baby, my fuzzy tail! I put ME in the frunk.

 

[Tosh]

I'm in (nyuk nyuk nyuk)

 

[HuntingPudel]

I'm in (nyuk nyuk nyuk)

I fit better.

 

[RickMachE]

In summary, they saved about $25 per car by redesigning the frunk. The genesis of the original design seems to have been "no exposed fasteners," which was relaxed later on to save costs. They probably wanted the frunk to be a showcase of design for the release of the Mach-E.

We are now on the third revision (four if you count the added anti-baby divider in early 2021) of the frunk for 2025+ with the heat pump, and it is now a $500 option.

Oh, btw. Ford had four unique designs for Mach-E frunks:
1. 2021 featuring a plastic divider insert that makes the frunk useless (to inhibit putting a baby inside). This one lacked a working release button (at least for a while)
2. 2022 / 2023 job 1 which is depicted as the original design in the video
3. 2023 job 2 / 2024 which is the large, simplified / redesigned frunk in the video
4. 2025 / 2026 smaller frunk to accommodate the heat pump

The divider was required because there was no emergency escape mechanism fir a child, since babies don't often climb into cars on their own.

Fun fact, the Lightning frunk emergency button was easily bumped by things like golf clubs (frunk won't open while driving but it sets off a warning message), so Ford has to redesign it. People designed multiple covers, I printed one at my library.

To me, missing the issue entirely on the Mach-E was a major cluster. Someone should have been fired. Very sloppy. I swapped my 2021 frunk with my 2022 to keep the insert, I like it.

My cover is Lightning blue.

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