Is the Mach-E really 7 years behind Tesla?

[silverelan]

There's absolutely no way to deny that Ford is targeting the Tesla Model Y with the MME.

Tesla has some advantages over other manufacturers and there are two big ones that Ford is not able to gloss over.

• The ability to recharge quickly to gain 150 - 200 mi of range.
• Ubiquity + speed of the Supercharger Network.

Until Ford is able to both get the MME to match the Model Y on recharging time and the CCS network is as prevalent & quick (lol @50kW) as the Supercharger Network, Ford will continue to be a fast follower to Tesla in the EV space.

All that being said, I think Tesla for the first time is not the leader in EV performance. The Model S cannot compete against the Taycan on the track (not a big deal) and can't compete against the Lucid Air's range, recharging speeds and drag times.

I don't see how Tesla is 7 years ahead when they're already behind today.

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[trutolife27]

MAche is not 7 years behind lmao. Just tesla propaganda.

If its Netflix and games, and fart noises in the car that makes it soooooooooooo amazing and more advanced, then I pass.

For one I have seen the lag in Netflix and the chrome in the tesla. Many times sit with long lag times. There are even many videos from tesla owners saying its better to just watch from their phone then the car with the lag and buffering.?

Not Let's talk cutting corners. What is the structured adhesive in a tesla car, what is the sound reduction adhesive in a tesla? How many water baffles are in place throughout the vehicle. How does the tech on the drain tubes work? Does it have 3d patterned sound foam in the wheel wells?
Why is the road noise so bad many tesla? ?

I mean really tesla one screen. Y not one right above the steering wheel. Right all this tech and safety, self-driving right. Seems to me be better to see "some items right in the front where your looking at the road.

Tesla cuts corners in build quality that other cough cough "FORD" does not.
I rather have better-build quality at the end of the day then pushing a button to make fart noises.

Oh, and why the heck can you just open the glove box without touching the screen and going finding the part where you have to touch for it to open. Guess the same engineer that though the glossy black trim wouldn't have thousands of fingerprints all over it.?

At the end of the day, its kinda like the girl at the bar you thought was a 10 out of a 10. But next morning you wake up and the push-up bra and 5 layer makeup is washed off and you see that 10 is 5. Tesla paint and lipstick brother and the paint ain't worth a damn. ?



And that's the bottom line because TRU said so.

 

[efisher]

There's absolutely no way to deny that Ford is targeting the Tesla Model Y with the MME.

Tesla has some advantages over other manufacturers and there are two big ones that Ford is not able to gloss over.

• The ability to recharge quickly to gain 150 - 200 mi of range.
• Ubiquity + speed of the Supercharger Network.

Until Ford is able to both get the MME to match the Model Y on recharging time and the CCS network is as prevalent & quick (lol @50kW) as the Supercharger Network, Ford will continue to be a fast follower to Tesla in the EV space.

All that being said, I think Tesla for the first time is not the leader in EV performance. The Model S cannot compete against the Taycan on the track (not a big deal) and can't compete against the Lucid Air's range, recharging speeds and drag times.

I don't see how Tesla is 7 years ahead when they're already behind today.

The two items that you list are really one item. But I do not see that they offer enough advantages to Tesla to overcome all of the other ways that the Mach E is superior.

 

[jlauro]

Until Ford is able to both get the MME to match the Model Y on recharging time and the CCS network is as prevalent & quick (lol @50kW) as the Supercharger Network, Ford will continue to be a fast follower to Tesla in the EV space.

To put some numbers on the difference...
The model Y is about 28 min to go from 20% to 87% for about 200 miles.
The mach e is about 45 min to go from 10% to 80%. (More or less than 200 miles depending on the trim).

So, it's about 50% longer for the Mach E.

 

[silverelan]

MAche is not 7 years behind lmao. Just tesla propaganda.

If its Netflix and games, and fart noises in the car that makes it soooooooooooo amazing and more advanced, then I pass.

For one I have seen the lag in Netflix and the chrome in the tesla. Many times sit with long lag times. There are even many videos from tesla owners saying its better to just watch from their phone then the car with the lag and buffering.?

Not Let's talk cutting corners. What is the structured adhesive in a tesla car, what is the sound reduction adhesive in a tesla? How many water baffles are in place throughout the vehicle. How does the tech on the drain tubes work? Does it have 3d patterned sound foam in the wheel wells?
Why is the road noise so bad many tesla? ?

I mean really tesla screen. Y not one right above the steering wheel. Right all this tech and safety, self-driving right. Seems to me be better to see "some items right in the front where your looking at the road.

Tesla cuts corners in build quality that other cough cough "FORD" does not.
I rather have better-build quality at the end of the day then pushing a button to make fart noises.

Oh, and why the heck can you just open the glove box without touching the screen and going finding the part where you have to touch for it to open. Guess the same engineer that though the glossy black trim wouldn't have thousands of fingerprints all over it.?

At the end of the day, its kinda like the girl at the bar you thought was a 10 out of a 10. But next morning you wake up and the push-up bra and 5 layer makeup is washed off and you see that 10 is 5. Tesla paint and lipstick brother and the paint ain't worth a damn. ?



And that's the bottom line because TRU said so.

Classic.

 

[silverelan]

The two items that you list are really one item. But I do not see that they offer enough advantages to Tesla to overcome all of the other ways that the Mach E is superior.

I disagree. These are different and separate issues.

Mach-E takes ~40-45 mins to get back to 80% SoC. Model Y is 25-35 mins.

Supercharger stations have excellent geographic spread in North America and Europe. The added bonus for EU Tesla owners is they can pop over to Fastned or Ionity if they want.

I am guessing Mach-E will have similar or better range than the Y so we'll have that going for us.

 

[Nak]

You may not think the Mach-E is competing against Tesla's MY, but I'm pretty sure Ford thinks differently.

There's absolutely no way to deny that Ford is targeting the Tesla Model Y with the MME.

Whether they are targeting the Y or not is irrelevant. Obviously they have taken what they feel Tesla does well and tried to emulate it. That doesn't mean the two are direct competitors. Let me explain.

The E hits a target somewhere between the 3 and the Y. It lacks some of the utility of the Y but has a more car like--dare I say Mustang like--visual appeal. While not as fast as the 3, the E has better utility with it's hatchback. Obviously this was a great approach, look at all the people here--and others who have pre-ordered--that prefer the E's looks over the Y's utility. I'm guessing this was intentional on Ford's part; targeting an underserved market is almost always good business.

Next, look at the market. The Y and the E are both in the small crossover class, one of the hottest markets today. If ford sells every E they can manufacture--which I think they will, and Tesla sells every Y they can make--which they are currently doing, what percentage will the combined numbers be of the market? A tiny fraction. So neither is taking sales from the other; that's not really competition in the marketplace. Certainly there will be competition for individual buyers, but that's a personal thing and irrelevant to the companies.

The real competition is between the EVs and ICE vehicles. The more people that see either an E or a Y and change their impression of EVs to the better, the more E's Ford will sell and the more Y's Tesla will sell in the long run. There is an enormous market potential that exceeds what both companies together can produce. If the E is a huge success and opens the public's mind to EVs, Tesla will sell more cars. As more people drive Teslas and become enamored of EVs over ICE, Fords market for the E will expand and thrive. The two do not compete, they aid and abet each other.

A buyer who looks at the E may love it, but decide a Y serves his or her needs better--and vice a versa. The more individuals that can be shown the superiority of EV over ICE, the larger the EV market will grow. Individuals will choose the car that lights their own fire, but overall EV numbers will rise. This is good for Ford, for Tesla, and for the planet Earth.

 

[Jolteon]

I suspect this member is a reincarnation of Mach-MI given the similarity of definitive comments expressing the superiority of Tesla. Now you know a person who does not care about a four camera dashcam--me. Dashcams have been available after-market for years. My brother loves his (and often sends me videos from the dashcam in his Porsche as he drives the curves) but I have never felt it was worth the value to me and I have never had a situation where I have later thought "darn I wish I had video of that." That said, it is entirely possible that I would learn to like the feature if it were standard on my car and I might even think "why did I wait so long for this feature." The in car Netflix/You Tube, etc. features are just silly (to me, albeit obviously critical features to Jolteon and Mach_MI).

LOL

So because two Tesla owners like their Teslas it's obviously a con? Hahahaha

Commercial dashcams suctioned cupped to your windshield don't record the side and rear angles of your car - sure, I guess I could buy 4 and spiderweb the USB cables around the interior.

The side-angle camera was very important to me in an incident where the perpetrator was caught on my Tesla's side camera and would not have protected me with just a front commercial dashcam.

The in-car podcast streaming is far more important to me than the in-car Netflix, but I love them both. Tesla's $9.99/mo streaming internet and streaming YouTube is amazing to those of us without unlimited data plans or with carriers that have poor service - I have a friend that pays roaming fees still to leave his home area and use data - he'd love Tesla's Premium Connectivity, whereas Ford's "bring your own" solution would cost tons.

 

[Jolteon]

MAche is not 7 years behind lmao. Just tesla propaganda.

If its Netflix and games, and fart noises in the car that makes it soooooooooooo amazing and more advanced, then I pass.

For one I have seen the lag in Netflix and the chrome in the tesla. Many times sit with long lag times. There are even many videos from tesla owners saying its better to just watch from their phone then the car with the lag and buffering.?

Not Let's talk cutting corners. What is the structured adhesive in a tesla car, what is the sound reduction adhesive in a tesla? How many water baffles are in place throughout the vehicle. How does the tech on the drain tubes work? Does it have 3d patterned sound foam in the wheel wells?
Why is the road noise so bad many tesla? ?

I mean really tesla one screen. Y not one right above the steering wheel. Right all this tech and safety, self-driving right. Seems to me be better to see "some items right in the front where your looking at the road.

Tesla cuts corners in build quality that other cough cough "FORD" does not.
I rather have better-build quality at the end of the day then pushing a button to make fart noises.

Oh, and why the heck can you just open the glove box without touching the screen and going finding the part where you have to touch for it to open. Guess the same engineer that though the glossy black trim wouldn't have thousands of fingerprints all over it.?

At the end of the day, its kinda like the girl at the bar you thought was a 10 out of a 10. But next morning you wake up and the push-up bra and 5 layer makeup is washed off and you see that 10 is 5. Tesla paint and lipstick brother and the paint ain't worth a damn. ?



And that's the bottom line because TRU said so.

I will tell you that I use the glovebox only once every 6 months, to replace my proof of insurance. I prefer the screen button to a physical latch I have to look at.

The glossy black trim is annoying, they've addressed that thankfully.

Nobody said Tesla is perfect.

But the Mach-E lacks features that Tesla has, that cannot be denied, and the fact that Ford's reps on social have PROUDLY confirmed that they *will not* add them... now that's just insulting to me as a First Edition orderer because I thought I was getting a tech-forward car.

 

[Jolteon]

I mean I've answered this a lot.

The built-in dashcam, the built-in podcast streaming, Sentry Mode are the biggest ones that I am hoping Ford changes their tune on and I don't have to decide if I will downgrade to the Mach-E.

 

[Billyk24]

Apples and oranges. Argo, Waymo, etc are developing a different kind of autonomous vehicle than Tesla. The Argo/Waymo model requires a heavily detailed map for a small geographic area. Every driveway, every pothole, every curb will be mapped. Get outside of the vehicle's geographic area and it's useless. Tesla is attempting to develop an AI that will recognize potholes and curbs and driveways, etc. A Tesla vehicle will--if Tesla is successful--be able to drive virtually anywhere. Regardless, both systems once complete won't be for privately owned cars. Rather, they'll be for commercial use only. Tesla's FSD when--and if--complete will cost in excess of $100K. Ford is not days or months behind in this, they're not even in the same game as Tesla. Tesla is the only company that has the data required to even try and build an AI driver. Almost every Tesla car on the road is gathering data every day. That data has taken years to gather; no one else can gather that data at this time.

For a lot of people, autonomous driving really isn't going to be a factor in their decision. If you don't care to be part of this effort, it's about as relevant to you as who builds the better fighter jet. It's interesting to be sure, but i f you don't want to invest a sizeable sum in a system that may or may not become fully autonomous then it's only that: interesting.

I understand that Tesla can not and will not identify the state trooper hiding behind the highway billboard awaiting to present green stamps to selective drivers traveling westbound from the Dakota's. That said, Tesla does not have certified level 3 of automatic driving with the California Department of Transportation. Tesla's FSD is a huge cash cow for the company with the CEO stating way back in 2017 "soon we will have a Model S self driving itself across the country". Link: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckj...sing-again-on-self-driving-cars/#2c412155e98f

 

[JCHLi]

I think it's safe to say that every car had slightly different features. People than can pick what features matter to them.

Most of the "features" specific to Tesla aren't things I care about at all. Even if there was one or two features they had that I would want, it doesn't equate to "being ahead" of other brands.

I drive nearly 50,000 miles a year for work, previously I would do up to 100,000 miles a year and I have never felt the need or even desire for a dashcam...

 

[timbop]

I mean I've answered this a lot.

The built-in dashcam, the built-in podcast streaming, Sentry Mode are the biggest ones that I am hoping Ford changes their tune on and I don't have to decide if I will downgrade to the Mach-E.

Those don't really seem to be significant issues to me. I don't know what problems you've faced that those things helped with, so I can't really judge the import of those compromises. Since you travel so extensively where CCS charges are so thin and superchargers are available, being stranded would seem higher on the list than having to stream from your phone with AA - but that's me.

My priorities are a little different. After losing both my parents, having my juvenile son get arrested and put on a monitor bracelet for a year, and surviving almost a decade's worth of layoffs as the sole breadwinner I could really care a less if I have to play my podcasts through my phone.

What you HAVEN'T voiced is why you would consider switching from a company whose product you clearly feel is superior. Maybe it's just to try something new, I don't know. Nonetheless, in your heart I really don't think you want a Mach E - and that's OK. It isn't for everyone. If you're happy with the Tesla, keep traveling extensively with it and enjoying it. If you want a new car, stick with the manufacturer whose products and service you know and are content with.

 

[Jolteon]

Those don't really seem to be significant issues to me. I don't know what problems you've faced that those things helped with, so I can't really judge the import of those compromises. Since you travel so extensively where CCS charges are so thin and superchargers are available, being stranded would seem higher on the list than having to stream from your phone with AA - but that's me.

My priorities are a little different. After losing both my parents, having my juvenile son get arrested and put on a monitor bracelet for a year, and surviving almost a decade's worth of layoffs as the sole breadwinner I could really care a less if I have to play my podcasts through my phone.

What you HAVEN'T voiced is why you would consider switching from a company whose product you clearly feel is superior. Maybe it's just to try something new, I don't know. Nonetheless, in your heart I really don't think you want a Mach E - and that's OK. It isn't for everyone. If you're happy with the Tesla, keep traveling extensively with it and enjoying it. If you want a new car, stick with the manufacturer whose products and service you know and are content with.

I want the Mach-E because it's a Mustang, and I'm a huge Mustang fan.

I don't like *Tesla* at all.

There are Ford dealers everywhere, which is another help.

Plus, I want to push CCS forward, I've never been comfortable with Tesla's proprietary charging standard. But at the time (2018) there was no other choice since the Bolt was limited to 50 kW, so therefore useless for my needs.

The side-angle dash cam has provided evidence in an incident that occurred that I'd rather not get into. The front window dash cam has saved me from a higher collision deductible when I could prove that the foreign object that caused $2,000 of damage to my Tesla was airborne when it hit the car, and that I couldn't avoid it. So call that $500 saved (difference between my deductibles) thanks to it.

Plus I don't really like that I'm basically going to have to change cell phone providers for this car, so that the Android Auto features will work in more areas and so that I can actually stream my podcasts from the phone. I'd much, much rather use the car's modem than my phone. 100%.

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