L2 charging speed recently dropped 33%

[Peugfan]

Update on my 2021 Premium EX AWD JOB 1 derated charging. Since June I have not been able to charge at 40 amps (9.4 kw rate) without it going into a 9.4 to 7.2 kw yo-yo pattern after 60-90 min of charging. I bought a ThermoWorks IR temp gun and checked my charge port pin temperatures. After 2.25 hrs of charging and watching the kw rate on my JB app just when the rate started dropping I pulled the charge plug and within about 3-4 sec started measuring the port pin temperatures as quickly as I could to minimize cooling. At the 2 AC pins, L1 and N , I measured between 110-115 F. The bottom PE (protective earth) pin also measured in this range. The PP pin (proximity) pin measured about 130 (55 C). The IR gun has a laser pointer so you can quickly focus on the pin. Other temps I measured were EVSE charge hose near the J1772 connector 79 F and low 80's on the plastic charge line connector. The ambient temp was 50 F.

My conclusion is that the derating on my charge port has little if anything to do with my actual charge port overheating. The original derating was when the charge port sensor measured 105 C which I understand Ford has lowered to 80C. Checking for codes my car does not have the logged charge port overheat code P0E5F. I know there is a temperature sensor in the line from the charge port but I do not know how close to the actual pin this sensor is.

So I have more questions than answers. Is the temp sensor defective or is there a connection problem somewhere. Why would the PP pin be registering the highest temp. So I'm no longer concerned that my charge port will overheat. It's not a major problem for me as I can always set my JB for 32 amps and still get the charge I need but I would like my car to charge like it did for the two previous years. I will repeat the measurement the next time I charge.

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[Mach-Lee]

Update on my 2021 Premium EX AWD JOB 1 derated charging. Since June I have not been able to charge at 40 amps (9.4 kw rate) without it going into a 9.4 to 7.2 kw yo-yo pattern after 60-90 min of charging. I bought a ThermoWorks IR temp gun and checked my charge port pin temperatures. After 2.25 hrs of charging and watching the kw rate on my JB app just when the rate started dropping I pulled the charge plug and within about 3-4 sec started measuring the port pin temperatures as quickly as I could to minimize cooling. At the 2 AC pins, L1 and N , I measured between 110-115 F. The bottom PE (protective earth) pin also measured in this range. The PP pin (proximity) pin measured about 130 (55 C). The IR gun has a laser pointer so you can quickly focus on the pin. Other temps I measured were EVSE charge hose near the J1772 connector 79 F and low 80's on the plastic charge line connector. The ambient temp was 50 F.

My conclusion is that the derating on my charge port has little if anything to do with my actual charge port overheating. The original derating was when the charge port sensor measured 105 C which I understand Ford has lowered to 80C. Checking for codes my car does not have the logged charge port overheat code P0E5F. I know there is a temperature sensor in the line from the charge port but I do not know how close to the actual pin this sensor is.

So I have more questions than answers. Is the temp sensor defective or is there a connection problem somewhere. Why would the PP pin be registering the highest temp. So I'm no longer concerned that my charge port will overheat. It's not a major problem for me as I can always set my JB for 32 amps and still get the charge I need but I would like my car to charge like it did for the two previous years. I will repeat the measurement the next time I charge.

FYI the laser is not the exact point of temperature measurement. At close range the laser dot is about an inch offset from the optical axis. So you have to “scan” with the gun an inch each direction and look at the peak reading.

Pin temps also cool off extremely quickly. In 5 seconds they might cool off 10-20°.

I don’t expect the temps to be exactly the same as spec, but I think you’re aiming the gun wrong or not measuring fast enough. To practice, try measuring the temp of a match head after you blow it out. That’s similar to what you’re dealing with.

Limit kicks in at 80°C, so you’re looking for something in the 60-80°C range.

 

[azerik]

My GT-PE charges just fine. My job 1 premium AWD ER overheats and throttles. Maybe there was a small change in the part (supplier or gauge of some connecting wire) between the job ones and when they started making GT-PEs?

This is what I’m thinking. And depending on how this weekend pans out I might put my Emporia to the GTPE test.
Mine still only derates my MME. My FFE charges without a flicker.

 

[Peugfan]

FYI the laser is not the exact point of temperature measurement. At close range the laser dot is about an inch offset from the optical axis. So you have to “scan” with the gun an inch each direction and look at the peak reading.

Pin temps also cool off extremely quickly. In 5 seconds they might cool off 10-20°.

I don’t expect the temps to be exactly the same as spec, but I think you’re aiming the gun wrong or not measuring fast enough. To practice, try measuring the temp of a match head after you blow it out. That’s similar to what you’re dealing with.

Limit kicks in at 80°C, so you’re looking for something in the 60-80°C range.

I agree that the temp of the pins can cool down quickly but I did wiggle the laser pointer around somewhat I do not agree it would cool down that much in 4 seconds unless the charge pin has almost no mass. A fair comparison would be if the match head was made of metal and the same mass as the charge pin. The distance to spot ratio for this meter is 12:1 so at 12 inches the target is 1 inch. I was about 6 inches away so I did not miss the target. The response time of the meter is 1 second, the resolution spec is 0.1 degree, and the highest temp I could measure was about 45 C (PP pin). Before I pulled the charge connecter I tried getting as close to the junction of the charge plug and the charge port and I could not find anything above about 28 C. I could not take any picture of the readings as I don't have 3 hands or the time to record temps. Maybe I will do a voice memo on my phone next time I do a measurement.

 

[Mach-Lee]

FYI this person replaced their JuiceBox charger with a new one, and it dropped their charge port temps by 15ºC/27ºF. The reason was because their J1772 connector had worn out contacts that were causing the charge port to overheat:

See video, but the top two AC sockets are very dark/dirty/oxidized compared to the signal and ground sockets at the bottom, which still retain their normal shiny bright silver appearance. J1772 connectors do wear out over time and require periodic replacement. So you should consider your charging cable as a potential cause for the overheating in addition to the port itself.

I agree that the temp of the pins can cool down quickly but I did wiggle the laser pointer around somewhat I do not agree it would cool down that much in 4 seconds unless the charge pin has almost no mass. A fair comparison would be if the match head was made of metal and the same mass as the charge pin. The distance to spot ratio for this meter is 12:1 so at 12 inches the target is 1 inch. I was about 6 inches away so I did not miss the target. The response time of the meter is 1 second, the resolution spec is 0.1 degree, and the highest temp I could measure was about 45 C (PP pin). Before I pulled the charge connecter I tried getting as close to the junction of the charge plug and the charge port and I could not find anything above about 28 C. I could not take any picture of the readings as I don't have 3 hands or the time to record temps. Maybe I will do a voice memo on my phone next time I do a measurement.

The pins do have a very small thermal mass, and dissipate heat quickly through the copper wires they're attached to. I've observed the temp drop on the scan tool extremely rapidly when charging is stopped.

The IR temp gun has to be relatively close to measure a point heat source since they don't have very good resolution and essentially average what's in the circle of view. You should be scanning as close as you can, not 6". The hot part the car measures is down in the little holes right at the connection point, the overall port temp is much cooler.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

FYI this person replaced their JuiceBox charger with a new one, and it dropped their charge port temps by 15ºC/27ºF. The reason was because their J1772 connector had worn out contacts that were causing the charge port to overheat:

See video, but the top two AC sockets are very dark/dirty/oxidized compared to the signal and ground sockets at the bottom, which still retain their normal shiny bright silver appearance. J1772 connectors do wear out over time and require periodic replacement. So you should consider your charging cable as a potential cause for the overheating in addition to the port itself.



The pins do have a very small thermal mass, and dissipate heat quickly through the copper wires they're attached to. I've observed the temp drop on the scan tool extremely rapidly when charging is stopped.

The IR temp gun has to be relatively close to measure a point heat source since they don't have very good resolution and essentially average what's in the circle of view. You should be scanning as close as you can, not 6". The hot part the car measures is down in the little holes right at the connection point, the overall port temp is much cooler.

An excellent thing to check. Unfortunately I have ruled that out. Its a car problem for me. But soon to not be an issue as temps will go below freezing and stay low for a while.

 

[Shayne]

An excellent thing to check. Unfortunately I have ruled that out. Its a car problem for me. But soon to not be an issue as temps will go below freezing and stay low for a while.

The Ford software installed on our cars is not compatible with our cars, a senor is faulty or we are just lucky our ports have not melted as the cars charging hardware for some Job 1's does not handle specs under design conditions I remember Ford specifying how many L2 amps this car will handle I do not remember those being maximum values if you are lucky. It is the car and the software that Ford installed not the chargers. What exactly Ford has done and what in the car is causing it does not matter much as it was Fords software that caused it and us knowing what is actually wrong does not get it fixed for us. Ford gives us our second limp mode software.

What they need to do is show us in their service it is working on their charger (they won't as it won't). That is not an option as we are being ghosted by ford for months and months. Has Ford taken any DM on this thread ........... Nope.

Edit: -6C tonight and it is throttling here. Maybe -20C will be luckier

 

[kennethjk]

My juicebox is throttled not my Autel.

I only had my Juicebox 3 months when it started to throttle right after an update.

I would love to think it’s the Juicebox 1772 handle but it looks clean to me

Must be Florida electricity is cooler than NY

 

[Peugfan]

The charging pins on my car charge port and my JB connecter look pretty damn pristine and more like they have never been used than worn out but I'll continue this experimenting. I counted 7 brands of EVSE units having some sort of issues and most happening in mid-2023 so I'm not ready to condemn my JB. My problem coincided with a Ford software update. I only have 12,000 miles on my car so it's not had many charges. J-1772 charge connectors are supposed to be designed for 10,000 cycles…that is almost 30 years of daily charging. I guess we all have to keep trying different EVSE brands until we find that works with the Ford charge port/software.

 

[Peugfan]

Sure this shows me what a bad charge port looks like. Mine absolutely does not look like that….neither does my JB 1772 connecter.

 

[kdryden99]

I have not had any throttling since my charge port was replaced. The fact that this occurred right after the update might a coincidence. It really is the temp sensor the issue. The problem is if you didn't have the issue before the software update and your car never threw a code your car will now derate the charge to prevent going over temp hiding the fCt that you have a defective temp sensor.

 

[Shayne]

The charging pins on my car charge port and my JB connecter look pretty damn pristine and more like they have never been used than worn out but I'll continue this experimenting. I counted 7 brands of EVSE units having some sort of issues and most happening in mid-2023 so I'm not ready to condemn my JB. My problem coincided with a Ford software update. I only have 12,000 miles on my car so it's not had many charges. J-1772 charge connectors are supposed to be designed for 10,000 cycles…that is almost 30 years of daily charging. I guess we all have to keep trying different EVSE brands until we find that works with the Ford charge port/software.

Ford needs to bring our cars in and show us how it works perfect on their chargers if they want all of us to run out and start buying multiple chargers to try and fix the problem with these defective cars. They have not even acknowledge the problem after 6 months. They installed it on our cars and then ignore us. It happen exactly when Ford installed charging software on mine. I am not crazy enough to start pointing fingers at everyone's charger to promote a complete disinformation campaign.

I have not had any throttling since my charge port was replaced. The fact that this occurred right after the update might a coincidence. It really is the temp sensor the issue. The problem is if you didn't have the issue before the software update and your car never threw a code your car will now derate the charge to prevent going over temp hiding the fCt that you have a defective temp sensor.

The software was the first version for us of the car monitoring that senor (transfer function installed) so it was not coincidence it was always running at those temps and when the software was installed it flagged it. Answer for Ford is try to pull the wool over owners eyes, give then crappy home charging and ignore them.

You had a real dangerous problem of it being so defective it was reaching temps over 105C us that are over 80C but it never hit 105C just get the software to provide us with really slow charging.

 

[Shayne]

I have not had any throttling since my charge port was replaced. The fact that this occurred right after the update might a coincidence. It really is the temp sensor the issue. The problem is if you didn't have the issue before the software update and your car never threw a code your car will now derate the charge to prevent going over temp hiding the fCt that you have a defective temp sensor.

Double reply sorry. Can you ask your dealer how much it would have cost you if you had to pay for your fix? Can't be that expensive to change a harness and a piece of plastic. After 6 months of put up with this I may just try to get it fixed on my dime come spring maybe get it fixed after a year.

Bothers me it gets so hot it needs to throttle; sounds like that could be a bit dangerous. Obviously it was for the first 2.5 years or they would not have software set an 80C threshold after 2.5 years.

 

[kdryden99]

Double reply sorry. Can you ask your dealer how much it would have cost you if you had to pay for your fix? Can't be that expensive to change a harness and a piece of plastic. After 6 months of put up with this I may just try to get it fixed on my dime come spring maybe get it fixed after a year.

Bothers me it gets so hot it needs to throttle; sounds like that could be a bit dangerous. Obviously it was for the first 2.5 years or they would not have software set an 80C threshold after 2.5 years.

Well online the part is 900$ CDN (550$ US) and from what I see in my work order, the tech charged 4 hours. Considering they charge 150$ CDN an hour, you're looking at roughly 1500$ CDN or 1000$ US.

 

[kdryden99]

As promised the work order

The first part
"Verified problem charging 48 amp doesn't charge. Scan test no code present except P0E5F multiple times in SOBDM. Verified OASIS nothing pertinent. Verify pins everything ok. Verify temp in BECM OK. Charge port seems defective. Order port from US"

@Shayne I showed you my work order before.