L2 charging speed recently dropped 33%

[Mach-Lee]

Actually, I forgot, it doesn’t just drop.

it goes into a yo- yo effect , here is a graph

You have the old software. The new software smooths that out more.

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[kennethjk]

You have the old software. The new software smooths that out more.

What is the new software

nice of ford to let me know

edit: my bad, I looked at the last charge and it is a bit better , not great but def better than the yo-yo I was getting

 

[Maquis]

My L2 slows considerably

I disagree. My level 2 charger app plots a charge curve. It definitely slows down as it approaches 100%.

Ambient air temperature can also affect charging rate.

He said his charge rate dropped dramatically at 80%. I don’t think L2 starts tapering until well into the 90s.

 

[Shayne]

Last charge 27% to 90% 9 PM to 6:20 AM

Ballpark.

(90% - 27%) x 90 KW capacity = 57 KW

12 + 6.33 - 9 = 9.33 hours

57/9.33 = 6 KW/hr average just a great showing again. Must be my high ambient temps.

 

[Mach-Lee]

I wanted to share some results here after paying tuminatr a visit. He mentioned he was having some derate issues a couple pages back. First I inspected his charge port carefully and cleaned it. I did not see any issues with the charge port, pins were not bent or damaged. Typical dirt levels on the pins.

Next I took a look at his charging cable, specifically the pin sockets. He has an older pre-Enel X JuiceBox. The pin sockets in the handle appeared to be in great shape, no signs of melting or dirt. Looked shiny inside. However, I performed a J1772 pin fitment test, which revealed the sockets were LOOSE on the AC pins. The J1772 pins should fit into the socket with some resistance, just like when you plug a cord into an outlet. However these pin sockets were so loose the pin practically fell out from gravity alone. Overall insertion force was very low. This is not good because it creates a poor connection that generates extra heat.

He also had a second older juice box with the same style of cable, that also had loose pins. Conversely, a new EVSE had very tight pins.

Highest port pin temp I saw was 50°C (40A). Ambient temp was about 27°C. That’s below the 80-95°C point of concern. Nothing felt especially hot.

Voltage drop to the car was acceptable (-3%) during charging. The voltage went from 238V to 230V when the current ramped to 40A.

While I was there, I also updated his charger software to see if that would offer any further improvements.

In summary here are my findings:

• The AC pin sockets in the J1772 cable were loose, which was the likely cause of the overheating and derating in his case.
• There would be almost no way for the average user to detect this cause themselves. The pin sockets looked pristine even though they were very loose. Looks can be deceiving.
• It seems there may be a design issue specifically with older JuiceBox white J1772 connectors because both examples had loose sockets.
• If you have derate issues, you may need to replace your J1772 cable due to it being worn out. The cable may be the cause.
• These are likely multiple causes for derating, everybody’s issue may be caused by something different. Not necessarily the car.
• I recommend getting the latest charger (SOBDM) software to minimize issues. Especially if you see a yo-yo pattern.

Seems like switching to a different cable and/or the new software may have solved his issue for now. Time will tell.

If anybody else near me (Twin Cities-Eau Claire) area wants me to come take a look, I can take a shot at fixing your derate issue. I have test equipment.

 

[jeffMachE]

I wanted to share some results here after paying tuminatr a visit. He mentioned he was having some derate issues a couple pages back. First I inspected his charge port carefully and cleaned it. I did not see any issues with the charge port, pins were not bent or damaged. Typical dirt levels on the pins.

Next I took a look at his charging cable, specifically the pin sockets. He has an older pre-Enel X JuiceBox. The pin sockets in the handle appeared to be in great shape, no signs of melting or dirt. Looked shiny inside. However, I performed a J1772 pin fitment test, which revealed the sockets were LOOSE on the AC pins. The J1772 pins should fit into the socket with some resistance, just like when you plug a cord into an outlet. However these pin sockets were so loose the pin practically fell out from gravity alone. Overall insertion force was very low. This is not good because it creates a poor connection that generates extra heat.

He also had a second older juice box with the same style of cable, that also had loose pins. Conversely, a new EVSE had very tight pins.

Highest port pin temp I saw was 50°C (40A). Ambient temp was about 27°C. That’s below the 80-95°C point of concern. Nothing felt especially hot.

Voltage drop to the car was acceptable during charging. The voltage went from 238V to 230V when the current ramped to 40A.

While I was there, I also updated his charger software to see if that would offer any further improvements.

In summary here are my findings:

• The AC pin sockets in the J1772 cable were loose, which was the likely cause of the overheating and derating in his case.
• There would be almost no way for the average user to detect this cause themselves. The pin sockets looked pristine even though they were very loose.
• It seems there may be a design issue specifically with older JuiceBox white J1772 cables because both examples had loose pins.
• If you have derate issues, you may need to replace your J1772 cable due to it being worn out. The cable may be the cause.
• I recommend getting the latest charger (SOBDM) software to minimize issues. Especially if you see a yo-yo pattern.

Seems like switching to a different cable and/or the new software may have solved his issue for now. Time will tell.

If anybody else near me (Twin Cities-Eau Claire) area wants me to come take a look, I can take a shot at fixing your derate issue. I have test equipment.

This is great info. Thanks @Mach-Lee . I, too, have a pre-Enel Juicebox (dates from 2015) and I started to get the yoyo charging last year after the update that "fixed" charging. While I haven't checked the pins, it would not surprise me with a 9-year-old EVSE that gets used every day that I have some wear issues that contribute to the problem. I've been able to de-rate my Juicebox to 32 amps but have lost connectivity to it for about 4 months now and I'm not hopeful of getting it back - let's just say that EnelX support hasn't come through yet for me. I've been debating getting a newer unit that I can connect to and adjust the charging rate to see if my car is actually capable of charging at the full 40 amps. One other piece of info in my case - my son has a Model Y and when he's come to visit he can't get his car to charge with my Juicebox. It connects but throws an error pretty rapidly. Could be more evidence that my Juicebox is the problem at this point.

 

[Shayne]

I wanted to share some results here after paying tuminatr a visit. He mentioned he was having some derate issues a couple pages back. First I inspected his charge port carefully and cleaned it. I did not see any issues with the charge port, pins were not bent or damaged. Typical dirt levels on the pins.

Next I took a look at his charging cable, specifically the pin sockets. He has an older pre-Enel X JuiceBox. The pin sockets in the handle appeared to be in great shape, no signs of melting or dirt. Looked shiny inside. However, I performed a J1772 pin fitment test, which revealed the sockets were LOOSE on the AC pins. The J1772 pins should fit into the socket with some resistance, just like when you plug a cord into an outlet. However these pin sockets were so loose the pin practically fell out from gravity alone. Overall insertion force was very low. This is not good because it creates a poor connection that generates extra heat.

He also had a second older juice box with the same style of cable, that also had loose pins. Conversely, a new EVSE had very tight pins.

Highest port pin temp I saw was 50°C (40A). Ambient temp was about 27°C. That’s below the 80-95°C point of concern. Nothing felt especially hot.

Voltage drop to the car was acceptable during charging. The voltage went from 238V to 230V when the current ramped to 40A.

While I was there, I also updated his charger software to see if that would offer any further improvements.

In summary here are my findings:

• The AC pin sockets in the J1772 cable were loose, which was the likely cause of the overheating and derating in his case.
• There would be almost no way for the average user to detect this cause themselves. The pin sockets looked pristine even though they were very loose. Looks can be deceiving.
• It seems there may be a design issue specifically with older JuiceBox white J1772 cables because both examples had loose pins.
• If you have derate issues, you may need to replace your J1772 cable due to it being worn out. The cable may be the cause.
• These are likely multiple causes for derating, everybody’s issue may be caused by something different. Not necessarily the car.
• I recommend getting the latest charger (SOBDM) software to minimize issues. Especially if you see a yo-yo pattern.

Seems like switching to a different cable and/or the new software may have solved his issue for now. Time will tell.

If anybody else near me (Twin Cities-Eau Claire) area wants me to come take a look, I can take a shot at fixing your derate issue. I have test equipment.

Have to wonder why Ford is of absolutely no help here. No acknowledgement no transparency nothing. I should be bringing it to my dealer, they should have tight pins and show me it works there. That is a no go for over a year now. Asked a number of time and dead silent from @Ford Motor Company. I am going to guess the new software was the solution. Software did it so I presume software could fix it. Is that one still on hold?

 

[kennethjk]

My juicebox is only 2 years and and is in use half the time as the car is in florida for the winter

I believe it is the juicebox as it derates on my BMW also

I had contacted their support but after one contact they have ignored me

time to follow up again

 

[Shayne]

My juicebox is only 2 years and and is in use half the time as the car is in florida for the winter

I believe it is the juicebox as it derates on my BMW also

I had contacted their support but after one contact they have ignored me

time to follow up again

My Grizzle was/is brand new and is the extreme model nothing wrong with the charger here just the car derates after software installed. Ford not proving us wrong is the key.

 

[kennethjk]

My Grizzle was/is brand new and is the extreme model nothing wrong with the charger here just the car derates after software installed. Ford not proving us wrong is the key.

Maybe but as I mentioned before I do not get any derating on my Autel at my other house on either car

 

[Shayne]

Maybe but as I mentioned before I do not get any derating on my Autel at my other house on either car

Yes you mentioned it a number of time. I need the dealer to show me it is working there. That is an obvious no go for Ford.

 

[thenew3]

My Emporia was new last year. First couple of months when I got the car, it would charge steady at 48 amps, no yo yo. Then after a software update on the MME it no longer would charge at 48 amps. After spending a good deal of time troubleshooting, I figured out 43 amps was max it would charge at. It would start to yo yo after a few minutes.

Tested the same Emporia on several other vehicles including a loaner 2023 MME, and a 2023 F150 lightning, 2023 BMW i5. All will charge at 48amps and stay constant at 48amps for as long as I keep it plugged in (or the car gets to high 90% SOC).

Emporia even replaced my EVSE with another brand new one with a new J1772 plug design and new firmware. Have exactly the same issue with my MME.

I have also tested my MME on the Ford pro 80 amp charger. It also will not charge. So based on my testing, in my case, the issue is on the MME and not on the EVSE.

 

[Murse-In-Airy]

Same here as far as it being a car issue, not an EVSE issue. I haven’t put it to the test in a bit. I just turned the EVSE the wife primarily uses down to 32 amps. I’ll have to try again and see if any newer software update has changed anything.

 

[Shayne]

Same here as far as it being a car issue, not an EVSE issue. I haven’t put it to the test in a bit. I just turned the EVSE the wife primarily uses down to 32 amps. I’ll have to try again and see if any newer software update has changed anything.

This is the only one I have seen since OTA 6.6.6 that may help. I have not got it or the 6.6.

 

[tuminatr]

Lee thanks for your help. I believe you are correct in my case it's my EVSE / J1772 Cable. The public chargers I used must have also had loose connectors.

I ordered a new Emporia EVSE the two Juicebox units I have are ancient. One is their Kickstarter build-it-yourself charger. Also, I will upgrade the garage wiring and go to a 48a charger and a 60a circuit.

The new charger is set to be delivered on Monday and will initially be plugged in and run as a 40a until the garage wiring upgrade has been completed. I will try to post the results next week but likely will not have time as I am traveling

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