HDer

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Ford is clearly the David in this David and Goliath battle. Tesla is one of the most valuable companies in the world. Elon’s the richest person on the planet and I’m sure he has his pick of the best auto engineers. Plus he has a ten year head start. Ford is a company whose stock was in single digits very recently and a company who people were predicting might go bankrupt.

So it’s no surprise Ford is behind Tesla in more than a few ways. But they’ve built a wonderful car. Is it Detroit’s last stand or the start of a revival at the house of Ford? For our resale values I hope it’s the latter.
 

Mach-Lee

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I noticed they said that the MME has 2 coolant loops: one for the battery, cabin, and something called a "PTE" and the other for electronics and motors. I thought I had read that it could scavenge heat from the motors and electronics to warm the battery in the winter, how would that be possible if they are seperate loops? Is there some kind of exchanger between the two?
Yes the loops are separate. The heat from the motors cannot warm the battery or cabin. It uses the cabin heater instead. The vehicle must be plugged in to use the cabin heater. Therefore Ford advises that you plug in and set a departure time in cold weather for optimal performance.

The reason for this seems to be from a physics standpoint, the motor coolant isn't going to be very warm in cold weather (probably below 70ªF) so it would be very difficult to extract any usable heat out of it for cabin or battery heating due to the second law of thermodynamics. If the loops were combined you'd have to warm up the motors to near room temp and that could waste a lot of heat. So the isolated setup may very well be the most efficient option due to the differences in operating temps. Batteries and people like the same temps, but motors and electronics are fine with the cold and only need cooling.
 

TundraEV

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As a real engineer (one with a degree and not just "engineer" added to my title),
… this one cut deep. 😂 but where would you engineers be without a QA team of non-engineers reviewing all your work? J/K

you are spot on that the best engineering solutions incorporate inputs and constraints from many sources, not just design possibilities. Everything is a compromise and if a solution that Munroe thought is inelegant or whatever delayed launch by 6 months, or increased overall supplier costs, or caused a trade off that impacted an ancillary system, etc… He wasn’t on the dev team and has no clue what the design requirements and the constraints were that helped lead to the finished engineering design.

Hopefully people don’t take offense to this video. Clearly the guy has valuable insight and understanding, but he also is the equivalent of a former offensive coordinator watching Super Bowl XLIX 6 years later and screaming at the TV, “why didn’t they run the ball with Beast Mode?!?!!!!”

wait, maybe that wasn’t the best example since MME clearly won the proverbial Super Bowl🤣
 

trutolife27

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Ford is clearly the David in this David and Goliath battle. Tesla is one of the most valuable companies in the world. Elon’s the richest person on the planet and I’m sure he has his pick of the best auto engineers. Plus he has a ten year head start. Ford is a company whose stock was in single digits very recently and a company who people were predicting might go bankrupt.

So it’s no surprise Ford is behind Tesla in more than a few ways. But they’ve built a wonderful car. Is it Detroit’s last stand or the start of a revival at the house of Ford? For our resale values I hope it’s the latter.
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Ponypower50

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I have had enough of these videos! The Mache is a great car and super fun to drive. I stand by Ford and Ford stands by their products. Done!
 
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Shayne

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Remember Sandy just gushing about Tesla's casting but now Fords get thrown of a table and some flimsy steel cross over which everything is hung off is now the cats meow. Noisy compressor anyone. When I saw this guy get force fed to do a vid with the top Tesla fan boy Sean (Mr. Redundancy) on slamming the MME it did not take too much to put two and two together.

When I get coolant leaks it is normally because my rad is starting to rust out 😂. Hardware looked pretty similar but sure could ford may be could cut down on hose length? Whatever it fits in and I have a frunk. Good to go.
 

HuntingPudel

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@TundraEV stater that “Everything is a compromise.” Reminds me of one of the engineers I used to work with. He said that a lot about engineering is a compromise, whether it be because of cost, weight, systems complexity, manufacturability, serviceability, or whatever. There is always a trade-off somewhere.

My opinion of Munro’s videos is that he provides some useful information and insight, but the theatrics can be left at the door.
 

HDer

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The theatrics are what get views on YouTube unfortunately.
 

Jimrpa

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The vehicle must be plugged in to use the cabin heater. Therefore Ford advises that you plug in and set a departure time in cold weather for optimal performance.
Apparently, my Mustang Mach E is defective as the cabin heater is functional when the vehicle is not plugged in. Do you recommend I take it to the dealer for service? 😀
 

DaveHsr

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So are we ignoring all the praise he's given in regards to the Mach E? "Ford can be proud of this"

While at the same time disregarding the criticism to Tesla? "Why is it every time I look at one of these things the build is not right?"
Yes, he does have quite positive things to say about the Mach E (other than thermal management). Definitely looks to be built as an EV from the ground up, and not a retrofit. I've enjoyed the videos!
 

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I'm not sure how much of the system is devoted to cooling the cabin vs. the battery and mechanicals, but I'm highly impressed with the effectiveness of the AC in the Mach E. By contrast, I rode in a Model X this week in 90+ degree weather and it couldn't keep the cabin comfortably cool. Never been in a Model Y, but might part of the weight advantage be that they undersize the thing?
 

Cnote

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I'm not sure how much of the system is devoted to cooling the cabin vs. the battery and mechanicals, but I'm highly impressed with the effectiveness of the AC in the Mach E. By contrast, I rode in a Model X this week in 90+ degree weather and it couldn't keep the cabin comfortably cool. Never been in a Model Y, but might part of the weight advantage be that they undersize the thing?
Agreed. I have ceramic tint on the windows so that probably helps a bit but I'm very impressed with the ac on the car. I pretty much just change the temp a degree or two or increase the auto level when first getting in if it's been outside in the Houston sun for a bit, but otherwise no issues and it cools the car very quickly after initial start up.
 

ThomF

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This video is a redundant "pile-on." Sandy's fainting video from when the frunk was removed really told the same message. Ford uses a lot of individual components, interconnected with hoses. OK, I get it. I didn't need a second video to display the same issue.

It will be interesting to see what the comparative reliability is for the two vehicles.
 

1969Mach1Mike

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I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement. I'd love for him to spend time talking about repairability vs. assembly ease in his videos, though.

I really don't get my feelings hurt by his videos. I think he is biased, and it is obvious, though. Flopping parts out of a beat-up Home Depot box pretty much indicates how they approached this. It would have been interesting to see the reassembled Ford cooling system to compare it to Tesla... but I suspect that isn't as dramatic.

You understand he worked a full career for Ford right? He approaches everything from cost savings and efficiency.
 

1969Mach1Mike

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He worked at Ford in the era of Hank the Deuce. That should tell you all you need to know about his leadership style 😀
Oh, and at one point he proudly pointed out that he was “the #3 guy on the Boeing 787”. People may want to take a look at the 787 development program and the various setbacks, delays, and engineering issues it had. I’m not sure I’d put being a leader on that program on my resume, unless I was one of the people who got the program turned around, and maybe also fixed the “hey, the batteries spontaneously combust” issue 😀

The 787 issues were created from outsourcing after being warned multiple times by internal employees.... Boing had to actually buy some of the outsource companies to solve the issues.
 

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