My ChargePoint Home Flex Installed

[connoisseurr]

Looks good, nice and clean! I do like hardwired installs, I think they make more sense for a long-term installation. In my case I hardwired my charger, but also installed a 2nd circuit with a NEMA 14-50R so I have a backup (or in the future, can charge two EVs).

For everyone wondering on the ampacity, yes, #6 is OK for a 70A breaker and a 50A continuous load (it works whether you rate the wire at 75C or 90C, and in both cases assume the terminals are only 75C).

My only suggestion would be that it would have been better to connect the green wire instead of the white wire since that terminal is for an equipment grounding conductor, not a neutral. You don't actually need the white wire at all (though it isn't hurting anything by being there).

In this case it is somewhat academic because as you say they go to the same place, but it is technically incorrect and could be caught by a future inspector. It probably wouldn't have any kind of actual practical impact unless you got a whole-house GFP in the future.

Just a suggestion, I would terminate the green on the line side to be consistent with the load side color coding. Then I would pull the white completely out of the circuit conduit as it’s unnecessary for the Home Flex. Not a good practice to leave an orphaned wire in a high amp box. Sometimes it’s necessary with Romex to wire nut and tape off an unused wire, but not if using individual THHN in conduit.

@connoisseurr this is going to get some critique.

Should have used #4 THHN if using a 70A breaker. #6 THHN is sized for 60A. Need to use the 75C column(see NFPA 70 110.14(C)(1)(a)) of NFPA 70 Table 310.15 (B)(16), assuming this run is directly from panel to charger (it should be as nothing else is permitted to be on an EV circuit). Not sure why pull the extra wire. I would terminate the green (ground) wire, not the white. If you want to land the white, it should be marked with green tape. The Chargepoint requires 2 hot (black & red) + 1 ground. If your panel has both ground and white on the same bar, I hope your panel is wired up correctly. This is only permitted if the neutral and ground are bonded IN the panel.

Did a nice job training the Flex. I would have used EMT straight down from the ceiling, then flex right into the bottom of the charger box. Could have used 3/4” conduit the whole way but its OK to up a trade size.

This is all very valuable feedback. Thanks for the information. I pulled 4 wires in the event I chose an EVSE that required a neutral and ground landing point.

I did contemplate going #4 until my uncle (master electrician 30+ years), neighbor (commercial electrician 16 years), and a local reputable EVSE installer all identified #6 being acceptable and allowable for local building code.

My neutral bus and ground bar are bonded at the panel (new panel also installed early this year to support electric tankless and a few circuits for crypto mining). The white wire is indeed tagged at both ends indicating a grounded termination. Did that before commissioning the circuit.

 

[phidauex]

Should have used #4 THHN if using a 70A breaker. #6 THHN is sized for 60A. Need to use the 75C column(see NFPA 70 110.14(C)(1)(a)) of NFPA 70 Table 310.15 (B)(16), assuming this run is directly from panel to charger (it should be as nothing else is permitted to be on an EV circuit). Not sure why pull the extra wire. I would terminate the green (ground) wire, not the white. If you want to land the white, it should be marked with green tape. The Chargepoint requires 2 hot (black & red) + 1 ground. If your panel has both ground and white on the same bar, I hope your panel is wired up correctly. This is only permitted if the neutral and ground are bonded IN the panel.

Well, the Simpull cable is dual rated THHN and THWN-2, so it is rated for 90C. Of course, the terminals of the breaker are only rated for 75C so you have to evaluate the cable at 90C with conditions of use (temp and fill), and the termination at 75C without conditions of use.

But even using the 75C column, with ampacity at 65A you can round up to the next standard trade size breaker (allowable up to 800A breakers), meaning a 70A breaker can protect a 65A cable. A 60A breaker would have been fine as well, since both 60A and 70A are greater than 50 * 1.2.

I agree with you on the green wire - OP should just hook up the green/EGC on both sides. Leaving the neutral in place is probably OK since it does allow for some future expansion if an EVSE in the future wants the neutral.

 

[MONDO]

Well, the Simpull cable is dual rated THHN and THWN-2, so it is rated for 90C. Of course, the terminals of the breaker are only rated for 75C so you have to evaluate the cable at 90C with conditions of use (temp and fill), and the termination at 75C without conditions of use.

But even using the 75C column, with ampacity at 65A you can round up to the next standard trade size breaker (allowable up to 800A breakers), meaning a 70A breaker can protect a 65A cable. A 60A breaker would have been fine as well, since both 60A and 70A are greater than 50 * 1.2.

I agree with you on the green wire - OP should just hook up the green/EGC on both sides. Leaving the neutral in place is probably OK since it does allow for some future expansion if an EVSE in the future wants the neutral.

Ah, you’re right. 240.4 (B) does allow for the next trade size in this case.

Ok @connoisseurr I stand corrected on my breaker recommendation. Still don’t like your flex run though ?

 

[Neilthepilot]

Two things. #6 is the biggest wire the Chargepoint will accept.
There is nothing for Virginia but others should check their state. I can pick a electric company in Pennsylvania that will let me charge for free from 11pm-6am and give me a $100 rebate.
https://www.chargepoint.com/incentives/home/?type=14&state=58

 

[connoisseurr]

Ah, you’re right. 240.4 (B) does allow for the next trade size in this case.

Ok @connoisseurr I stand corrected on my breaker recommendation. Still don’t like your flex run though ?

I will find a way to please you... that's a guarantee.

The only reason I used flex is because I had to snake through a plenum between floors in a townhouse, that have misaligned open web trusses. If I tried to do that with EMT, the amount of 4 and 5 letter words flying out of my mouth would be a scary sight.

I also took advantage of that cable pull to run another conduit with some Cat6 for installing an access point in the garage. WiFi was always spotty. Will help with car connectivity and better coverage for the front door cam.

 

[Benny’66]

I will find a way to please you... that's a guarantee.

The only reason I used flex is because I had to snake through a plenum between floors in a townhouse, that have misaligned open web trusses. If I tried to do that with EMT, the amount of 4 and 5 letter words flying out of my mouth would be a scary sight.

I also took advantage of that cable pull to run another conduit with some Cat6 for installing an access point in the garage. WiFi was always spotty. Will help with car connectivity and better coverage for the front door cam.

OP, I appreciate how well you take (hopefully) constructive comments.

One other nitpicky item that you may have also addressed already. I can’t see if your LR conduit body is fixed to the wall (I see the offset spacer behind it), but it either needs to be or you need a strap within 12” of the appliance.

And I do agree with leaving the extra white wire since we do not know what the next charger will require and pulling after the fact sucks. Just tape off the wire nut as well.

For sure if your next vehicle is the F150 lightning and want that house transfer switch option the neutral will be required. Not sure the #6 will take the load, but that’s another story.

 

[connoisseurr]

OP, I appreciate how well you take (hopefully) constructive comments.

One other nitpicky item that you may have also addressed already. I can’t see if your LR conduit body is fixed to the wall (I see the offset spacer behind it), but it either needs to be or you need a strap within 12” of the appliance.

And I do agree with leaving the extra white wire since we do not know what the next charger will require and pulling after the fact sucks. Just tape off the wire nut as well.

For sure if your next vehicle is the F150 lightning and want that house transfer switch option the neutral will be required. Not sure the #6 will take the load, but that’s another story.

I look at all trades such as electrical, plumbing, framing and carpentry as unique skilled trades, because most professionals have their own preferred method of doing things, while meeting code requirements. You cannot get upset with another person's comments, especially in a forum, because it's a collaborative space where arguments and criticism are frequent.

No one here has told me that I'm doing anything wrong, just not their preferred way; example @MONDO who doesn't like my liquidtight fnmc

I do plan on keeping the extra conductor. It is capped at both ends. It provides the capability of futureproofing potential new chargers.

For F150 or Rivian that supports V2H, the current wire size will NOT be compatible with those types of chargers. I probably won't bother switching to a V2H bidirectional charger for this house - we have rather stable power here. I will be doing this for our new construction house that's getting build. a V2H charger will mesh very well with the selected SPAN breaker panel and solar array.

 

[connoisseurr]

One other nitpicky item that you may have also addressed already. I can’t see if your LR conduit body is fixed to the wall (I see the offset spacer behind it), but it either needs to be or you need a strap within 12” of the appliance.

Forgot to address this - the conduit body is attached through a spacer I fabbed up from 1/2" thick azek trim board. 4 screws with gas-tight washers affix the box to the wall. I then a bit of Lexel over each screw to ensure a gas-tight seal.

I'm lucky to have 5/8" OSB behind the drywall in my garage. Makes mounting items very easy. I still chose to mount the CPHF to a stud for additional support.

 

[Mach-Lee]

The choice of fittings at the end is a bit unconventional looking, but it works. It's a good unit.

As others have stated, #6 THHN w/ #8 ground is correct for a 70A breaker per NEC.

And I would also switch to using the green wire for ground instead of the white because of OCD.

Last, I always recommend people consider the scenario of having multiple EV's in the future and how they might charge them. If the ceiling is open you might consider adding a run for a second charger. There are ways you can share one circuit, but running two is best if you have the opportunity. Upper trim F150 Lightnings will come with an 80A charger that will require a 100A breaker for full charging rate.

 

[connoisseurr]

Last, I always recommend people consider the scenario of having multiple EV's in the future and how they might charge them. If the ceiling is open you might consider adding a run for a second charger. There are ways you can share one circuit, but running two is best if you have the opportunity. Upper trim F150 Lightnings will come with an 80A charger that will require a 100A breaker for full charging rate.

This house has a single car garage and we both work from home (COVID aside) so there’s no need for two chargers.

Our new build will have 2 charging circuits.

Also, I didn’t know the F150 includes the 80A charger. I know that’s the unit needed for V2H but not a necessity for day-to-day charging.

 

[connoisseurr]

Also wanted to add that expanding to that larger charger would be a bit concerning as I have 3x 40A circuits for a tankless water heater and 2x 30A circuits for crypto mining (both 30A circuits are close to 80% capacity). Panel is rated for 200A. While I don’t see adding the larger charger would easily overload the panel, I’d like to err on the side of caution and use the ChargePoint.

I’m also sure by the time I’d get an F150 and would install a larger charger, ethereum mining may not be as profitable. So, we’ll see.

 

[BMT1071]

@connoisseurr I have the exact same charger. Setup your charging schedule in the chargepoint app and not in the car. If you do it in the car the charger gets all wonky and doesn't want to work. So set the car to always charge from home.

Unfortunately, this means you'll get a stupid, nonsensical message from Ford every day about not being able to start the charge at your charge time, when the charge time isn't even close to the actual time, but that's just how it works.

That's odd. I have had 0 issues with setting the schedule in the car and having my CPHF always on. ??

 

[DevSecOps]

That's odd. I have had 0 issues with setting the schedule in the car and having my CPHF always on. ??

I've had ChargePoint give me errors when I have it set to no schedule and the car set to control the charging. Specifically it will turn red and error out. In the ChargePoint app it even says "Turn off the schedule in your car" on the schedule screen. I think this happens because if you don't have a schedule set the charger attempts to charge the car as soon as it's plugged in, the car refuses the charge and then no one is happy... I woke up a few mornings with no charge when I did it that way. But if it works for you, then your charger must like your car better than mine does.

Of course if you don't use the schedule then I guess you would never have that issue. I charge from 12am - 6am when our utility gives me $0.09 kWh for having an EV. I also water my lawn (on well = electricity) and have the dryer/dishwasher set to start at that time since it's for any and all power. I average about 18 kWh at midnight.

 

[Cptmorgemaker]

Last, I always recommend people consider the scenario of having multiple EV's in the future and how they might charge them. If the ceiling is open you might consider adding a run for a second charger. There are ways you can share one circuit, but running two is best if you have the opportunity. Upper trim F150 Lightnings will come with an 80A charger that will require a 100A breaker for full charging rate.

Most Modern new houses have 200 amp services but you get to 70s,80s some even on the 90s even some 00s you have 100-150 amp services so it is going to be interesting for people to start adding 100A chargers. I had my service put underground from aerial and go to 200A. Then changed panel and added a sub panel i did the work. But if you are putting a 100A and a 50-80A charger your gonna be pushing it if your charging both and you have a couple fridge/freezers,hot tub, ac all running. Getting Evs if you live in older houses can prove to be very costly. Especially if you're already maxed out and then you have to run another service then you get to pay for another meter, base bill and installation.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Most Modern new houses have 200 amp services but you get to 70s,80s some even on the 90s even some 00s you have 100-150 amp services so it is going to be interesting for people to start adding 100A chargers. I had my service put underground from aerial and go to 200A. Then changed panel and added a sub panel i did the work. But if you are putting a 100A and a 50-80A charger your gonna be pushing it if your charging both and you have a couple fridge/freezers,hot tub, ac all running. Getting Evs if you live in older houses can prove to be very costly. Especially if you're already maxed out and then you have to run another service then you get to pay for another meter, base bill and installation.

Yes, in that case you would want to look at installing two lower amp chargers like 24 or 32A which will still get the job done overnight, or getting a dual-plug charger that shares a singe circuit. You can really make any home capable of charging two EV's simultaneously if you drop the amperage low enough or use load sharing. Thinking about future to run a second circuit (even a small one) is still prudent during renovations even if you only have 100A service.

If you look at actual energy consumption, most homes that don't have electric heat rarely use more than 30A at a given time somewhat independently of their service size. I'd estimate that 85% of US homes have 100A service or larger that could support 32A charging, and 50% of US homes with 200A service that can handle two 32-50A chargers. You'd really only be able to put in an 80A EVSE if you have 150 or 200A service.

Looking into the future, I would guess that new homes with be built with a NEMA 6-50 outlet for each garage stall.

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