Preconditioning - charging

[kodiakng]

Right, but it’s basically “nice to have.” When you get to the charger it’s still going to charge the car, pre-conditioned or not.

Anybody know how much time it really saves?

in FL you won't ever care. look at @Mach-Lee's posts on DCFCing during winter for the difference.

i suppose it also depends on your tolerance for sitting and waiting for your car to charge in subzero temps.

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[Tampamike]

in FL you won't ever care. look at @Mach-Lee's posts on DCFCing during winter for the difference.

i suppose it also depends on your tolerance for sitting and waiting for your car to charge in subzero temps.

I actually, on occasion, drive my car outside of Florida.

Without doing the searching and reading, I’ll ask again. Anybody know how much difference pre-conditioning makes in time to charge? I know it’s not zero, but is it 2 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes?

 

[kodiakng]

I actually, on occasion, drive my car outside of Florida.

on those occasions i guess the "in FL" part will no longer be relevant.

Without doing the searching and reading, I’ll ask again. Anybody know how much difference pre-conditioning makes in time to charge? I know it’s not zero, but is it 2 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes?

the mach-e charging curve is based on normal ~70°F conditions. the further you are from that temperature the longer it will be. it will also depend your battery level.

so, yes, it could add anywhere from 0 minutes to more than 30 minutes.

 

[Mache_Nor]

I can chime in about speeds or charging, as I live in a country which is very cold. Precondition can in the worst situations almost half the charging times. If it’s really cold and you don’t precondition, I have seen speed in the range of around 50 kWh and lower. Usually it’s not worst case scenarios, but a 30 min summer / preconditioned charging session quickly takes 40-50 minutes on winter if not preconditioned.

 

[Phobosbag]

if you want to increase the charging speed by 4-5 kW, you can turn on the heater to max. try this on a dcfc, and your speed will increase. if you turn off the heater, the speed will drop by 5 kW.
Just open all window and turn on heater to max.

this is old way to cool a ICE engine when overheating.

after the start of charging, the temperature quickly heats up, and it seems to me that there is no point in pre-preparing. probably in winter the situation is different.

 

[Tampamike]

on those occasions i guess the "in FL" part will no longer be relevant.



the mach-e charging curve is based on normal ~70°F conditions. the further you are from that temperature the longer it will be. it will also depend your battery level.

so, yes, it could add anywhere from 0 minutes to more than 30 minutes.

So, … you don’t know …

 

[Teslaeata]

Well, that was worth 36 posts ?????

 

[Tampamike]

I can chime in about speeds or charging, as I live in a country which is very cold. Precondition can in the worst situations almost half the charging times. If it’s really cold and you don’t precondition, I have seen speed in the range of around 50 kWh and lower. Usually it’s not worst case scenarios, but a 30 min summer / preconditioned charging session quickly takes 40-50 minutes on winter if not preconditioned.

Thanks. That’s useful info.

 

[Tampamike]

if you want to increase the charging speed by 4-5 kW, you can turn on the heater to max. try this on a dcfc, and your speed will increase. if you turn off the heater, the speed will drop by 5 kW.
Just open all window and turn on heater to max.

this is old way to cool a ICE engine when overheating.

after the start of charging, the temperature quickly heats up, and it seems to me that there is no point in pre-preparing. probably in winter the situation is different.

I don’t think that’s actually speeding up your charging. I’d speculate that the extra 4-5kw from the charger is just covering the 4-5kw that your heater is using. The net effect would be a wash and your actual charge rate would be the same. Also, I don’t think the passenger cabin heat on does anything to heat the battery. The battery has its own heat.

 

[Phobosbag]

I don’t think that’s actually speeding up your charging. I’d speculate that the extra 4-5kw from the charger is just covering the 4-5kw that your heater is using. The net effect would be a wash and your actual charge rate would be the same. Also, I don’t think the passenger cabin heat on does anything to heat the battery. The battery has its own heat.

the heater turned on at maximum cools the battery more. the charging speed after 5 minutes of charging, the cooling speed of the battery is limiting charge

 

[Mach-Lee]

if you want to increase the charging speed by 4-5 kW, you can turn on the heater to max. try this on a dcfc, and your speed will increase. if you turn off the heater, the speed will drop by 5 kW.
Just open all window and turn on heater to max.

this is old way to cool a ICE engine when overheating.

after the start of charging, the temperature quickly heats up, and it seems to me that there is no point in pre-preparing. probably in winter the situation is different.

You see more power draw from the DC charger when the heater turns on because the extra power needed to run the heater (5 kW). The battery is not taking in any more power if you turn on the cabin heater. Monitor the kW reading in FordPass (instead of what is says on the charger) which is how much is actually entering the battery, you'll see there's no effect turning the heater on and off. Basically the charge curve throttles the DC charger to maintain a constant rate going into the battery, if you use more accessory loads the charger output will increase or decrease to compensate and maintain consistent battery current during DC charging.

Preconditioning doesn't usually do anything in the summer because the battery is already warm enough, but anytime the battery temp is below about 70ºF it does help to speed up charging times. The colder it is, the more beneficial en-route preconditioning becomes. In temps below freezing it becomes very necessary to avoid a slow session.

 

[Phobosbag]

You see more power draw from the DC charger when the heater turns on because the extra power needed to run the heater (5 kW). The battery is not taking in any more power if you turn on the cabin heater. Monitor the kW reading in FordPass (instead of what is says on the charger) which is how much is actually entering the battery, you'll see there's no effect turning the heater on and off. Basically the charge curve throttles the DC charger to maintain a constant rate going into the battery, if you use more accessory loads the charger output will increase or decrease to compensate and maintain consistent battery current during DC charging.

Preconditioning doesn't usually do anything in the summer because the battery is already warm enough, but anytime the battery temp is below about 70ºF it does help to speed up charging times. The colder it is, the more beneficial en-route preconditioning becomes. In temps below freezing it becomes very necessary to avoid a slow session.

I get you. It makes sense as well. It turns out the heater uses a lot of energy, unlike the AC, I did not notice the effect of the AC on the change in the charging station.

 

[Phobosbag]

You see more power draw from the DC charger when the heater turns on because the extra power needed to run the heater (5 kW). The battery is not taking in any more power if you turn on the cabin heater. Monitor the kW reading in FordPass (instead of what is says on the charger) which is how much is actually entering the battery, you'll see there's no effect turning the heater on and off. Basically the charge curve throttles the DC charger to maintain a constant rate going into the battery, if you use more accessory loads the charger output will increase or decrease to compensate and maintain consistent battery current during DC charging.

Preconditioning doesn't usually do anything in the summer because the battery is already warm enough, but anytime the battery temp is below about 70ºF it does help to speed up charging times. The colder it is, the more beneficial en-route preconditioning becomes. In temps below freezing it becomes very necessary to avoid a slow session.

It doesn't seem like the Fordpass app only shows the battery charge, and doesn't account for additional consumers
I've been charging for quite a while, and the whole time I was in the car with the A/C on, it was about 100 degrees outside the window.
I don't see any difference in the EA and Ford pass data.

 

[Christina]

If I’m not mistaken, the only navigation system that supports the battery preconditioning is the build-in navigator from Ford. This means that you may use Apple, Google, ABRP to plan your route, but then need to select your planned charging stops also on the Ford system (~30min in advance)

TIL thank you, I had no idea this was an option. Of course it's 106 today where I live so most likely won't need this anytime soon, but it's good to know.

 

[jeffMachE]

Per the actual impacts, I can only offer some anecdotal info based on my experience (living in CO - it does get cold). When I've tried to DCFC in cold weather (20 Farenheit or colder) without pre-conditioning, the max rate I have pulled in about 75kW (with battery below 50%), with charging sessions averaging about 55 kW. In the summer, I'd see 120-140 kW in the same circumstances with the rate staying above 85 kW for nearly the entire session.

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