Range from the window sticker

[Mach1E]

Ah, I see you are in California. I don't know if it's available where you are, but many members from here have posted that they take advantage of offpeak rates to do their charging at home.

You said “you are still paying a lot less than gas when charging at public fast chargers.”

That just isn’t true. DC chargers cost as much or more than gas.

Yes, charging at home is cheap though.

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[Maquis]

That is not correct either. A gollon of gasoline is approximately equivalent to 10 kwtHrs in terms of modern car efficiency

We need to stop mixing car efficiency with energy unit conversion. A gallon of gasoline contains approximately the same amount of energy as 30 kwhr of electricity. It’s physics.

 

[timbop]

How are you calculating that? A gallon of gas costs about $3.00 here. A gallon of gas is equivalent to about 30 kwhr of electricity. The cost would have to be less than $0.10 per kwhr to be cheaper than gas.

The operating cost advantage for an EV is their efficiency, not the raw fuel cost.

Electrify America charges $.43/kwh for nonmember pricing, and assuming 2.9 mi/kwh that comes to $0.15 per mile. At $3.75 per gallon with a 25MPG car that comes to $0.15/mile

 

[Rt1AWD]

Electrify America charges $.43/kwh for nonmember pricing, and assuming 2.9 mi/kwh that comes to $0.15 per mile. At $3.75 per gallon with a 25MPG car that comes to $0.15/mile

You see, by your own calculations fast chargers are not cheaper then the gasoline

 

[timbop]

I was talking about fast charges. There is no offpeak on fast chargers. It is always 45 cents per kwHr or more

OK you got me. I am not going to quibble. Within margins of error and allowing for fluctuating gas prices it is about the same cost to DC fast charge as it is to buy gas. The best use case for a BEV is to charge at home where you save money and break even on road trips.

 

[Rt1AWD]

We need to stop mixing car efficiency with energy unit conversion. A gallon of gasoline contains approximately the same amount of energy as 30 kwhr of electricity. It’s physics.

Economics doesn't care about physics. It cares about output. How many miles give dollar worth of gasoline vs dollar worth of electricity

 

[Rt1AWD]

OK you got me. I am not going to quibble. Within margins of error and allowing for fluctuating gas prices it is about the same cost to DC fast charge as it is to buy gas. The best use case for a BEV is to charge at home where you save money and break even on road trips.

No, the best use case is to charge near the office at the employer's expense

 

[timbop]

Economics doesn't care about physics. It cares about output. How many miles give dollar worth of gasoline vs dollar worth of electricity

Right, all that matters is the $/mi. To ammend my prior statement: if you DCFC that much (or plan to for a long trip) you can pay the $4/mo fee to EA and get the $.31/kwh pricing which indeed cuts the $/mi cost to under $0.11 per mile.

But this is getting ridiculous

 

[Maquis]

Electrify America charges $.43/kwh for nonmember pricing, and assuming 2.9 mi/kwh that comes to $0.15 per mile. At $3.75 per gallon with a 25MPG car that comes to $0.15/mile

The operating cost per mile has 2 main components. Fuel cost and vehicle efficiency. I thought we were talking about the fuel cost.
Your calculation includes the efficiency which has to make an assumption about the efficiency of a MME powered by an ICE. Why not assume it’s powered by a supercharged 5.0 Coyote and call it 15 mpg? It looks even better! And you may need that engine to beat the MME 0 to 60! ?

 

[Maquis]

Economics doesn't care about physics.

That’s why I became an engineer instead of an accountant. ?

 

[timbop]

The operating cost per mile has 2 main components. Fuel cost and vehicle efficiency. I thought we were talking about the fuel cost.
Your calculation includes the efficiency which has to make an assumption about the efficiency of a MME powered by an ICE. Why not assume it’s powered by a supercharged 5.0 Coyote and call it 15 mpg? It looks even better! And you may need that engine to beat the MME 0 to 60! ?

No, the comparison I made was a MME compared to generic ICE that gets about 25 MPG.

The comparison is ALWAYS going to be an assumption based on unknown variables.

WTF do you guys just want to argue because you have nothing better to do???

 

[RickMachE]

What about commercial chargers. Do they charge you for what they used or for what they put to the car?

What leaves the charger, which has loss like any other charger.

 

[Rt1AWD]

No, the comparison I made was a MME compared to generic ICE that gets about 25 MPG.

The comparison is ALWAYS going to be an assumption based on unknown variables.

WTF do you guys just want to argue because you have nothing better to do???

It looks like mr Maquis is trying to prove himself that it is better to be an engineer then an accountant and decided to troll us for some sort of selfassurance....

 

[Rt1AWD]

Why not assume it’s powered by a supercharged 5.0 Coyote and call it 15 mpg? It looks even better! And you may need that engine to beat the MME 0 to 60! ?

The OP of this thread https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/horrible-mileage-gt.13020/
would not agree with you

 

[Motomax]

We need to stop mixing car efficiency with energy unit conversion. A gallon of gasoline contains approximately the same amount of energy as 30 kwhr of electricity. It’s physics.

Soo what you’re saying is that I could theoretically fully charge my standard range battery with just two gallons of gas! Lol (before you go on about conversion losses…it was a joke)

Anyways…back to charging cost. My cost calculations came out to about a 30-35mpg vehicle equivalent at $4.5/gallon. Then I got solar so I guess charging will be free in about 8years lol.

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