Fat Mach

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Man, your gonna make me put you on my ban list. Gaslighting all the time.

The mache was not built for aero. It weighs a lot more than the model y. Of course, it's not going to be the same. What is true though it the mache gets closer to the range listed always when the model y underperforms time after time with its inflated numbers.

So in the summer or even in areas where the heat pump doesn't play a factor then the mache even would do better stack against the model y.

The bottom line it went further. Guess with your booohooo heat pump if ford put one on the mache is just beat that ass even more.
He's the kind of guy who gets his doors blown off at the drag strip then claims that he used less gas.
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Juan-Marco

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Efficiency is the most over rated metric around. If you want efficient get a Chevy Bolt of Kona.

One major reason why efficiency in BEVs matters little is that powering a BEV is so cheap efficiency doesn't register on the cost scale. My rate is $.09/kWh. Do I care if I get 4 miles/kWh and pay $.023/mile or 3 miles/kWh and pay $.03/mile? Of course not. Seven bucks over a thousand miles or seventy bucks over ten thousand miles just doesn't matter.

The only reason it might matter is on a road trip when you DC charge: If the charge rate is the same the more efficient vehicle will charge faster. That's not going to be a big deal for most people or for most of the time. In this regard, note that this test presumably accounts for the famed Tesla heat pump. The efficiency numbers should be closer, and the MME should have more of a range advantage, in places where more BEVs are sold.

Realistically the MME is a beast, and a beast is not going to be as efficient as an econobox. Just reality.
Totally agree.
I did not order the Mach E, spending that much money, to be worried about efficiency.
I don't like the Tesla (I'm allowed to) and better efficiency in comparison certainly won't sway me.
My wife would point out the overall cost of the car compared to many other BEV's ( as those mentioned above) and LOL if I was to call this car efficient.
Monthly payment, luxury tax, insurance, even deducting savings on maintenance ( hopefully) plus charging cost of the Mach E, driven over a specified distance, compared to multiple other BEV's or ICE vehicles, still makes this the most expensive car I would ever own.
When I excitedly explained to her how much money we would safe on gasoline, she explained how much more we would spend monthly in order to safe this.
I don't kid myself that efficiency ever played a role in my purchase.
I want this car. I really don't care if another vehicle is deemed more "efficient" because it gets me the same distance for less money.
My daily drive is short enough that even in the dead of Winter I could drive days without a charge, so range was never an issue.
 

bluestarct

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Yeah, I agree it's not all about pure efficiency, and I too wrote the check for a Mach-E.

Some F-150s have better highway cruising ranges than Focus does. But that's not a "win" when one has a 36-gallon tank and one has a 12-gallon tank. :p
Obviously you have not a taken a long haul trip . It is a win. Those 36 gallon tanks come in real handy. That is about 700 miles of highway range.
It also means that I don't have to stop for gas except for every couple weeks of regular driving.
 

SteelMach

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People are freaked out because you started your first reply with questionning that the MachE won, when clearly it did - your first reply was : "The machE won?"

The point of the video and the test was not to question the efficiency of the body design or how much energy was used by KM/Mile, but which car will take you the farthest in cold weather, and the video showed that the MachE won - and the first thing you did was say it wasn't the case.

If the video was about : "Is the MachE an efficient car?" then no, it's not efficient, it uses a lot of energy to go a distance other cars can do with less energy and yes the Tesla is more efficient.

But the video is about : "Which car can go the furthest in a cold climate" and you cannot deny that the MachE won the numbers are there.

But at the same time, I agree that people are also overreacting to your reply. We were talking Apples, you mixed in some Oranges you're still talking about Oranges while we're trying to talk about Apples.
Well that's what I'm saying. It seems like a tie.

One won overall range by a squeaker, one won efficiency by a landslide.

Each car has valid claim to say they won.
 

SteelMach

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Obviously you have not a taken a long haul trip . It is a win. Those 36 gallon tanks come in real handy. That is about 700 miles of highway range.
It also means that I don't have to stop for gas except for every couple weeks of regular driving.
Not in the BEV world, it isn't.

A bigger battery that takes longer to charge is not a win.

If we want to talk refueling, that's where efficiency comes in. At a constant recharge rate, assuming the batteries had the exact same DCFC curve, the Mach-E will have a longer "pit stop" in this test's conditions.

If this trip was extended to 700 miles, the Model Y would arrive at the end first, even if the Mach-E can go longer between each charge.

That's the only reason I said this seems like a tie and less like a reason any vehicle should be popping the champagne bottles.
 


PeeCee

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Well that's what I'm saying. It seems like a tie.

One won overall range by a squeaker, one won efficiency by a landslide.

Each car has valid claim to say they won.
I find it curious why you don't want to let it go?

When I watch a Hockey Game, and my favorite Hockey Team won because they scored a goal, no one goes and says : "Well both teams won - it's a tie, because the other team had less penalty time."

This is what you are doing here. You keep hammering on the efficiency part when the original topic was never about efficiency, but about which car goes the farthest in winter. So no, in this specific case, we do not have 2 winners - it's not a tie. In the specific topic of which car has the longest distance in winter, the MachE won.

If you want to start a new thread about Efficency, go ahead, and we'll agree that Tesla is the most efficient, but you cannot say it's a tie. That's just being very stubborn.

Or better yet, start a thread that both vehicles have their weakness and strengths and that overall, they are pretty even. Sure, I can agree with that.

But in this case, it's all about the distance in winter - stop talking about the efficiency.
 

Njia

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Mach-E won?

Mach-E used 87.64 kWh to go 227 miles. (227/2.59)
Model Y used 62.25 kWh to go 221 miles. (221/3.55)

Sure it went 6 more miles... but used far, far more energy to do it, from those numbers.

I would still call Model Y the winner here. It's incredible how efficient it is.

Looking at the fact that the Model Y achieved such impressively better real-world consumption than the 3... guess that heat pump works after all.
The really good news about the Y is that it will involuntarily shed its heavy glass roof at highway speed to save weight.
<end sarcasm string>
<end eye roll>
 

SteelMach

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The really good news about the Y is that it will involuntarily shed its heavy glass roof at highway speed to save weight.
<end sarcasm string>
There's a reason I didn't buy the Model Y. It's ugly, it's poorly built. I never said it was the better car.
 

trutolife27

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Admin can you lock this thread or kill it. Really it keeps people from reading and posting with all the drama from one person. Thank you.
 

OttawaGuy

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I do not want to drive the most efficient car. I want to drive quality. It's a bonus that I can say the Mach-E goes farther.


Amen... Bingo.. Eureka

In the ice world do all people drive the car that is the most efficient the ones that goes the farthest...

No


Yes I wanted an electric car.. But I wanted quality and looks... The MME gives me that and meets my needs
 

Jimmy2

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But it doesn't fast charge faster than the more efficient BEV either. Or the less efficient BEV. E-Tron has a better charge curve, Model 3/Y has a better peak speed.

I don't care about the price of the car or the price of the electricity.

I care about the road trip and the DC Fast Charges. That's exactly why I bring it up, that is my use case. I bought the Mach-E because I like the car itself, but I have to admit it isn't as efficient as a Tesla, and it doesn't charge as fast either.

I was just stating the facts presented. That's all.
That's a pretty fair statement. You just said it a bit more diplomatically. I hope you stay with us on the site. Curious though, when you made your purchase decision, what influenced you the most to go for the MMe? I assume, like me, you were also considering the MY.
 

SteelMach

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That's a pretty fair statement. You just said it a bit more diplomatically. I hope you stay with us on the site. Curious though, when you made your purchase decision, what influenced you the most to go for the MMe? I assume, like me, you were also considering the MY.
I did not actually consider the Model Y. I've heard too many negative things about Tesla quality, and I'm not on board with the idea they use their own proprietary connector (same reason I don't buy iPhones and won't until they use USB-C).

I bought the Mustang Mach-E because its what I've always wanted - an electric Mustang.

That's why I was so excited to find a community here to talk about it - I was very active on the Mustang forums before when I had my gas Mustang.
 

pt19713

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Because this is a tie at best.

People who say "Mach-E won" have never used a BEV in the real world, I have to believe that, because otherwise they're just pretending not to so they can think they won a meaningless internet argument that they created by arguing with math.

This test proves who can drive 227 miles or 221 miles. Hooray, Mach-E won.

If you have a destination that's *exactly* 227 miles away, be happy you have a Mach-E, if you had a Model Y you'd be stranded 6 miles before.

But, if you have to go 600 miles (far more reasonable), then sure, you can stop 227 miles in if you have a Mach-E. That Tesla behind you had to exit 6 miles ago.

Now you have to replenish 40% more energy than that Tesla does in order to do your next 227 miles.

As you sit at the charger, you see that "shorter range" Tesla fly by on the interstate, he's back on the road.

At the end of 600 miles, sure, you stopped at mile 227, 454, and then arrived. He stopped at mile 221, 442, and then arrived.

But he got there half an hour earlier, because he had to put in 40% less electricity at those two stops.

This is why LeMans is not a 1 lap race, and it's not about setting the speed record, or even the distance record. It's a 24 hour race, and it's about how far you can go in the time. The fastest car, the biggest gas tank cars, they're not the ones that win - it's the ones that are fast, long range *and* efficient that win.
At the end of the day, people are always going to argue it's a win for Ford, it's a win for Tesla. Both get the same result but go about it differently. Ford gets there with a bigger battery. Tesla gets there with efficiency. There's really no point in trying to sway the other side's opinion. Ford owners will defend their brand. Tesla owners will defend their brand.

For those that watched Bjorn's videos, in the winter, Tesla has a slight edge when doing a 600-700 mile trip due to the charging speeds. In the summer, Tesla may still have a slight edge but we won't know until people start reporting and doing similar tests. Bjorn's tests are a good indicator because it takes into account the car's efficiency, charging stops *and* charging times. Going off memory, the Mach-E was around 11 hours? He believes it can shave off some time with summer temps and the RWD.

Also, the original numbers posted are incorrect. The Y would be around 252 miles of range.
The 3 and Y also have the ability to charge at 250 kW, which helps reduce the idle times on longer trips.
 

SteelMach

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Amen... Bingo.. Eureka

In the ice world do all people drive the car that is the most efficient the ones that goes the farthest...

No


Yes I wanted an electric car.. But I wanted quality and looks... The MME gives me that and meets my needs
Same :) It's a Mustang - a darn good looking one too - and that's why it got my money.
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