Serramonte Ford Mach-E Specialist Here

[WNKent]

Why should Options have anything to do with price protection? Price protection ensures that the price I pay is what was in place when I ordered. How I pay for the car (Options or some other method) should have nothing to do with the price we have agreed upon. Is there any documentation from Ford that these two concepts are connected?

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[Gloff]

Why should Options have anything to do with price protection? Price protection ensures that the price I pay is what was in place when I ordered. How I pay for the car (Options or some other method) should have nothing to do with the price we have agreed upon. Is there any documentation from Ford that these two concepts are connected?

The residual is calculated on the MSRP of the vehicle, the Percentage is set by Ford Credit quarterly.

Your sale price doesn't have to = the MSRP. The residual is a fixed number (% of MSRP), the selling price has an impact on your payment because Payments + Tax/License + Interest + Residual = total cost. Since the residual is fixed, the interest is fixed, that leaves the payments variable, any discount (or Premium) will reflect in the monthly payment. What I was saying here is that when we write the contract for an options, the residual we're writing is based on the newer MSRP, not the price protected MSRP. The price protection would be a discount off the MSRP on the contract (if given up front).

Simple Example:

MSRP: $50k, residual 50% discount:
Residual: $25k
Options Payments ($25k)/35 = $714.29

Price protected:
Original MSRP $50k
Updated MSRP : $52k
Residual $26k
Payments (26k-2k=24k)/35 =685.71

The effective residual is higher, despite you receiving the same price for the car. Because of the way options is structured, you front load the discount on the payments. If you just paid cash, the totals would be identical.

 

[Gloff]

That is why they should be calling their Ford Dealer Rep for that guidance. I bought a Mach-E and my price increase is $2000. The second document I posted above lists that car. What mistake could the possibly make, giving me the difference by reducing the price in their system for a Super Duty truck? I guess that could be a mistake, but I would've caught that when signing papers. If they can't read, that's on them. ?‍

Mach-E is relatively easy as it's only had one price increase (for 2022). It's more complex for other model lines because orders are taking longer in some cases (see my 10 month Super Duty Order with 4 price changes)

 

[WNKent]

That's exactly my point. I'm just the layman in the equation. I don't write the policies for the dealership. I do understand both sides.

I'd love a conversation with Ford on a number of issues that need to be resolved, but I only have so many tools at my disposal.

If you are the layman, what are we supposed to be? The bottom of the 12/3/21 memo tells you what to do. In addition, your Finance Folks could call their Dealer rep. This whole process has been covered, in their monthly meetings with their Ford Rep.

 

[Cm12]

My Zone Rep is aware, many dealers are asking him on it.

Hey, I just wanna thank you for coming on here and taking the time to answer some questions. Ford corporate certainly hasn’t taken the time to do so, nor has any other dealers. You’ve already shown more commitment to the Ford customers than many of our dealers have - we’re not paying you anything and you’re more responsive than what many of us have gotten from our salesmen. I’ve bought two Mach-E’s without major issues (other than my salesman I ordered from ghosting me and I had to finally get in touch with someone else in the dealership to pick up my car before they called it a cancelled order and marked it up), but it seems many others aren’t having the same fortunes. Some of the dealers I tried to purchase from here in Oregon weren’t great, and one was downright unethical. Thanks for putting your neck out and being the voice that Ford corporate SHOULD be.

 

[WNKent]

Mach-E is relatively easy as it's only had one price increase (for 2022). It's more complex for other model lines because orders are taking longer in some cases (see my 10 month Super Duty Order with 4 price changes)

Yup, it's easy, what was the price on your initial order sheet? That's the price you get. <problem solved>

Oh, wait... in your situation, did you get the price that is shown on your order sheet on the day your order was accepted?

 

[Gloff]

If you are the layman, what are we supposed to be? The bottom of the 12/3/21 memo tells you what to do. In addition, your Finance Folks could call their Dealer rep. This whole process has been covered, in their monthly meetings with their Ford Rep.

We know what to do, that's not the issue. The issue is independent verification. I have to have faith that we will get paid correctly. We are not allowed to access or verify the information directly. We know what tools we can use to get the information, but those tools aren't always available, especially on the weekends when we would need that information.

Hey, I just wanna thank you for coming on here and taking the time to answer some questions. Ford corporate certainly hasn’t taken the time to do so, nor has any other dealers. You’ve already shown more commitment to the Ford customers than many of our dealers have - we’re not paying you anything and you’re more responsive than what many of us have gotten from our salesmen. I’ve bought two Mach-E’s without major issues (other than my salesman I ordered from ghosting me and I had to finally get in touch with someone else in the dealership to pick up my car before they called it a cancelled order and marked it up), but it seems many others aren’t having the same fortunes. Some of the dealers I tried to purchase from here in Oregon weren’t great, and one was downright unethical. Thanks for putting your neck out and being the voice that Ford corporate SHOULD be.

Thank you. I'm trying to be transparent, we could be like most dealers and not tell anyone how we're handling things, or come on the forum at all. The problem with a high level of transparency is that the customer is not privy to the other side of the equation or knowledgeable about Ford's inner workings. Ford didn't share the price protection sheet, that was leaked by a dealer.

 

[WNKent]

I agree with you. Burden should not be placed on the customer.

I'll be tying my hair back, taking off my ear rings and greasing up on gotcha day! ? ?‍

 

[Gloff]

Yup, it's easy, what was the price on your initial order sheet? That's the price you get. <problem solved>

Oh, wait... in your situation, did you get the price that is shown on your order sheet on the day your order was accepted?

I say Mach-E is easy, I mean only the price protection amount since it's only had one price change. 99% of Mach-E were ordered online, with no dealer input other than accepting the order. Until the price change, we had no reason to save the WBDO preview, we can look at the order date through another system, but the MSRP is updated to current levels.

Then, one of our four sales managers has to look up the order date, invoice date, find the price adjustment sheet that outlines the protection amount and make sure it's correct. There's a lot of moving pieces and potential for human error. Waiting till we get paid is the safest way for us.

 

[TonyaE]

I'll be tying my hair back, taking off my ear rings and greasing up on gotcha day! ? ?‍

You almost got me killed! Had me choking on my coffee reading this.?? I see you Kent.??

 

[ARK]

That is why they should be calling their Ford Dealer Rep for that guidance. I bought a Mach-E and my price increase is $2000. The second document I posted above lists that car. What mistake could the possibly make, giving me the difference by reducing the price in their system for a Super Duty truck? I guess that could be a mistake, but I would've caught that when signing papers. If they can't read, that's on them. ?‍

I don’t know, maybe husband orders it, but wife wants it in her name. Maybe dad orders, but it’s really for son to register in his name. Maybe John Smith places the order, but it was always meant to be a business vehicle registered with Smith & Sons, Inc.

Maybe someone finds out about an incoming order from this forum or elsewhere that is effectively abandoned, thinks they’re smart, and alters a screenshot to make it appear the original order was always in their name.

All stuff that the dealer would have to make their problem and navigate if they gave the discount up front because Ford doesn’t have a good way of allowing dealers to get a yes/no on the price protection before the sale is completed.

 

[Reign of Ravens]

Getting away from price protection, here's a funner question: from the dealership side, do you get the sense (or personally feel) that out of all the customers drawn to various Ford vehicles, Mach-E customers are pains to deal with?

What I mean is, I figure the average customer coming to the dealership sort of knows what they want, you help to guide them, there might be some haggling over the price, and then it's a done deal. At least based on this forum, I get the sense that most of us heading to our dealerships know exactly what we want, we think we know what's going on but don't really (Ford's website is misleading - I've learned a lot during my long wait that I didn't know at the start, even though I did a month of looking into things before placing the order), and because we're so connected, we're extra paranoid and suspicious of the dealerships, while also having a lot of time to simmer and bug the dealership. Add to that the fact that the Mach-E, despite being a relatively pricey car, doesn't make the dealership much money (my local dealerships claim to lose money on the sales).

I try to take a sympathetic approach to my dealership, which also seems incredibly disorganized (thought it was possibly shadiness in the beginning but the more I learn...). Wouldn't mind hearing the other side for a bit of amusement and to help me be even more sympathetic to my dealer.

 

[Gloff]

I don’t know, maybe husband orders it, but wife wants it in her name. Maybe dad orders, but it’s really for son to register in his name. Maybe John Smith places the order, but it was always meant to be a business vehicle registered with Smith & Sons, Inc.

Maybe someone finds out about an incoming order from this forum or elsewhere that is effectively abandoned, thinks they’re smart, and alters a screenshot to make it appear the original order was always in their name.

All stuff that the dealer would have to make their problem and navigate if they gave the discount up front because Ford doesn’t have a good way of allowing dealers to get a yes/no on the price protection before the sale is completed.

That is correct. Rest assured, we're going to follow up on price protection in situations like this, but a lookup is the best solution.

 

[Gloff]

Getting away from price protection, here's a funner question: from the dealership side, do you get the sense (or personally feel) that out of all the customers drawn to various Ford vehicles, Mach-E customers are pains to deal with?

What I mean is, I figure the average customer coming to the dealership sort of knows what they want, you help to guide them, there might be some haggling over the price, and then it's a done deal. At least based on this forum, I get the sense that most of us heading to our dealerships know exactly what we want, we think we know what's going on but don't really (Ford's website is misleading - I've learned a lot during my long wait that I didn't know at the start, even though I did a month of looking into things before placing the order), and because we're so connected, we're extra paranoid and suspicious of the dealerships, while also having a lot of time to simmer and bug the dealership. Add to that the fact that the Mach-E, despite being a relatively pricey car, doesn't make the dealership much money (my local dealerships claim to lose money on the sales).

I try to take a sympathetic approach to my dealership, which also seems incredibly disorganized (thought it was possibly shadiness in the beginning but the more I learn...). Wouldn't mind hearing the other side for a bit of amusement and to help me be even more sympathetic to my dealer.

Not a pain to deal with at all. The Mach-E Buyer is generally more educated and informed. Some dealers may find this to be a pain to deal with, but we understand the value of a customer like that for word of mouth advertising. You're right that you have more time to stew on the product, watch videos, etc... That comes with the territory of enthusiasts. I see lots of similarities between Mach-E Buyers, Bronco Buyers, and Lightning Buyers. I've been through this song and dance a few times with Focus RS, then Bronco (check out the early thread on the California Forum on B6G where I got viciously attacked when I identified myself as a dealership employee). Forums tend to be full of educated enthusiasts that know more than the average customer regardless of model.

That said, Mach-E customers on average are more informed and educated than other vehicles including niche enthusiast models. Comes with the territory of a bleeding edge tech oriented product.

Most of the suspicion and paranoia has nothing to do with our individual dealership, and more to do with dealers that spring markups on ordered customers after the vehicle arrives. Dealers that do that make our job harder. I field calls from customers that placed orders with us that ask us if we have a markup, even though they have a signed order confirmation at MSRP.

I try to take a sympathetic approach to my dealership, which also seems incredibly disorganized (thought it was possibly shadiness in the beginning but the more I learn...).

Part of the problem is that automotive sales traditionally has had a high turnover. This leads to a lot of less informed personnel. All the policies and procedures that each company has, it takes time to learn all that. I've been here 11 years, and I only found out about price protection about three or four years ago.

Think about it this way as well: A salesperson has to be knowledgeable about 15 model lines; customers that do a lot of research (like Mach-E Customers) are focused on a few models and do, on average, 10 hours of research before even going to the dealership! I imagine that Mach-E customers on average have done more research than that. There will be situations where the customer knows more than the average salesperson.

 

[mdpmdp]

If you are the layman, what are we supposed to be? The bottom of the 12/3/21 memo tells you what to do. In addition, your Finance Folks could call their Dealer rep. This whole process has been covered, in their monthly meetings with their Ford Rep.

You are also conveniently omitting (or are unaware of) the fact that Ford corporate themselves have put out a memo stating that the post-sale check method is valid. Seems you're directing a lot of anger towards @Gloff as if he's the administrator of the price protection process. I would prefer to have price protection up front (as opposed to post-sale check), but I also agree with his assessment (and @ARK's) that they don't want to be giving away thousands of dollars in the event that a couple price protections don't get reimbursed. It's not dissimilar to the idea that we want the price protection up front because we're not convinced the dealer will pass it on to us - just switch the parties.

Seems odd to crucify him when he's come on here to provide information to us and has openly stated that his dealership is actually trying to get Ford to change the process because they understand how anti-consumer it is. Your issue is with Ford corporate and seems like his dealership is actually advocating on our behalf.

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