Stop Safely Now (HVBJB): Mach-E Owners Biggest Fear - Facts and Info Thread

[AllenXS]

Ladies and Gentlemen, let me introduce our next candidate for the Darwin Award......

No can of beer in hand, must be at a tricky part.

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[scoopman]

@DevSecOps curious your thoughts on this line from a Ford rep that this is fixable with software alone. If that was the case, why a new P/N?

"Ford says the problem can be fixed with an over-the-air software update, which will be issued “next month.” Mustang Mach-E owners can also take their vehicles to a Ford or Lincoln dealership for a more immediate software fix."

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23167399/ford-mustang-mache-stop-sale-dealers-defect

Seems like this will just be a current limiting software patch instead of fixing the root issue, no?

That sounds half-accurate to me from all that I've read. I think Ford needs to issue the real recall notice with its decisions, otherwise you'll just continue to see inaccurate articles and potentially statements by Ford's press team .....

 

[JonathanEzor]

FWIW, my best guess is that this recall will be similar in kind to the most-recent-but-one recall on my Pacifica Hybrid, which involved an under-floor set of contacts that could in certain circumstances get wet and corrode, potentially causing fires. The recall involved a physical inspection of the contacts, with undamaged ones getting protected, and damaged ones getting replaced. Mine were fine and didn't need replacement.

In this circumstance, I expect that the recall for on-the-road Mach-Es will likely require a physical inspection of the HVBJB contacts to see if there is any scoring that could lead to the problems discussed throughout this thread. If there isn't any, whatever software patch Ford is developing/has developed to change the HVBJB behavior to avoid the arcing contacts issue may be enough. If there is existing damage, the part will need to be replaced, probably with one less likely to be damaged in any event. That's my best guess, anyway.

I'm hoping that, for those of us who haven't yet taken delivery of/driven affected Mach-Es, the fix will be software alone. Given that mine's a GT, and some of the anecdotal stuff floating around, mine may also be proactively given the newer version of the part. {Jonathan}

 

[Electric Goat]

@DevSecOps curious your thoughts on this line from a Ford rep that this is fixable with software alone. If that was the case, why a new P/N?

"Ford says the problem can be fixed with an over-the-air software update, which will be issued “next month.” Mustang Mach-E owners can also take their vehicles to a Ford or Lincoln dealership for a more immediate software fix."

https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23167399/ford-mustang-mache-stop-sale-dealers-defect

Seems like this will just be a current limiting software patch instead of fixing the root issue, no?

Based on the recall PDF that someone else posted in a different thread, it seems to be worded in such a way that indicates that standard MMEs will receive a software update (to the BECM) while the MME GT & GTPEs will require new hardware (HVBJB) and a software update to the BECM.


We'll all find out soon enough....

 

[hawkeye3point1]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you're asking me to comment on that I haven't addressed in the last page? Be happy to try if you can elaborate.

Question for Ford engineering, does cycling power while L2 charging cause an event where the HV contactors open under load, thanks.

 

[back_at_it_19]

Officially per Reuters and Ford statement: https://apple.news/AWQ8Ibi9lSGuRoAgZ9nPyBg
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co said Tuesday it is recalling about 49,000 Mustang Mach-E electric vehicles in the United States because a part could overheat and result in a loss of driving power.
The No. 2 U.S. automaker said DC fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat. Ford said it will address the issue that covers Mach-E vehicles built from late May 2020 through late May 2022 with a software update it expects to begin next month.

 

[DevSecOps]

Question for Ford engineering, does cycling power while L2 charging cause an event where the HV contactors open under load, thanks.

I do not believe that the HV contactors change state when 12v accessory mode is activated. I'm not an expert here though.

 

[ElectrifyCLT]

Officially per Reuters and Ford statement: https://apple.news/AWQ8Ibi9lSGuRoAgZ9nPyBg
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co said Tuesday it is recalling about 49,000 Mustang Mach-E electric vehicles in the United States because a part could overheat and result in a loss of driving power.
The No. 2 U.S. automaker said DC fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat. Ford said it will address the issue that covers Mach-E vehicles built from late May 2020 through late May 2022 with a software update it expects to begin next month.

Man oh man I hope they don't reduce the charge curve and/or more severely limit power as the solution.

 

[buzznwood]

Man oh man I hope they don't reduce the charge curve and/or more severely limit power as the solution.

We have plenty of people that have timing slips, draggy and racebox results that they can used to do a before and after recall comparison. So while you can never tell it would be stupid for Ford to neuter GT/ GTPE even more than it already is as a large does of even more negative press it is not going to look good and will no doubt get some class action lawyers hands rubbing together in anticipation of a windfall.

 

[dtbaker61]

Man oh man I hope they don't reduce the charge curve and/or more severely limit power as the solution.

well..... the only three ways to fix a heat problem that I know of are:
1. to generate less heat - possible OTA to reduce DCFC charge curve, regen, or power output
2. improve cooling, sensors, and heat management
3. replace w beefier parts that can take the heat

personally, I have turned OFF my automatic OTA for now as I would like to avoid #1.

 

[Neil4Real]

well..... the only three ways to fix a heat problem that I know of are:
1. to generate less heat - possible OTA to reduce DCFC charge curve, regen, or power output
2. improve cooling, sensors, and heat management
3. replace w beefier parts that can take the heat

personally, I have turned OFF my automatic OTA for now as I would like to avoid #1.

Which is why option 3 seems to be what they'll be doing. I just don't recall seeing the the Stop Safely Now problem earlier than the tail end of last year/start of this year. And it wasn't just cars that had a bunch of miles that were getting it, so I wonder what coincided with them popping up farther down the line but all build dates can be effected by it, so it wasn't a part change for, say, Job 2 cars or something.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Question for Ford engineering, does cycling power while L2 charging cause an event where the HV contactors open under load, thanks.

L2 charging uses the auxiliary contactor not the main contactors. Not sure what you mean by cycling power, if you mean unplugging no, but if you turn the car on that may close the main contactors. However they aren't under any load then.

Either way, don't be afraid of L2 charging.

 

[rcechinel]

That sounds half-accurate to me from all that I've read. I think Ford needs to issue the real recall notice with its decisions, otherwise you'll just continue to see inaccurate articles and potentially statements by Ford's press team .....

With the update on the original post that @DevSecOps made (first post is BALLERS, it's all that people really need to know, kudos Todd. I' will buy you a drink if I ever meet you), it seems that GTs (and maybe Premium ER AWD?) could have a new part as part of the recall, while SR/RWD might only get software updates, which is not ideal. It will be hard to make people believe this wouldn't include (more) artificial power limits.
What is unclear is if ALL trims produced starting now will have the new part, and not only the software update, but I assume so (it wouldn't make much sense otherwise). With that, we will definitely have two classes of cars out there: built before 5/25/2022 and after, with the applicable market value reflections. If someone doesn't have the car included in the hardware recall, I can see some people going crazy to "force" the issue to manifest itself.

And last question: does anyone know what we could expect at the factory lines? Production has stalled for more than 2 weeks now. Are we looking into a "HVBJB part hold", like we had the chip holds in January?

 

[SWO]

With the update on the original post that @DevSecOps made (first post is BALLERS, it's all that people really need to know, kudos Todd. I' will buy you a drink if I ever meet you), it seems that GTs (and maybe Premium ER AWD?) could have a new part as part of the recall, while SR/RWD might only get software updates, which is not ideal. It will be hard to make people believe this wouldn't include (more) artificial power limits.
What is unclear is if ALL trims produced starting now will have the new part, and not only the software update, but I assume so (it wouldn't make much sense otherwise). With that, we will definitely have two classes of cars out there: built before 5/25/2022 and after, with the applicable market value reflections. If someone doesn't have the car included in the hardware recall, I can see some people going crazy to "force" the issue to manifest itself.

And last question: does anyone know what we could expect at the factory lines? Production has stalled for more than 2 weeks now. Are we looking into a "HVBJB part hold", like we had the chip holds in January?

It sounds like there was a short pause but cars are making progress again. *fingers crossed*

 

[rcechinel]

It sounds like there was a short pause but cars are making progress again. *fingers crossed*

Fingers crossed. I haven't gotten solid evidence about it yet.

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