Tips or thoughts on fire mitigation strategies

[ReverendPete]

I am under the impression that if you have a HVB fire, sprinklers in your garage are just going to create steam... Your best bet for any mitigation might be something like this: https://thefirestore.com/Fire-Cloak-EV-Car-Fire-Blanket

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[Exodus D]

I am under the impression that if you have a HVB fire, sprinklers in your garage are just going to create steam... Your best bet for any mitigation might be something like this: https://thefirestore.com/Fire-Cloak-EV-Car-Fire-Blanket

That's pretty interesting, thanks for sharing. Isn't cheap, but if it prevents fire spread to the rest of the house, etc, small price to pay to protect family and house. At least prevent spread until responders can get there and decide what to do.

That said, my only concern is deploying it in a garage when a fire has already started--enclosed space will trap the fumes which I've read are pretty bad and flammable. So, I think the best way to utilize something like this would be to use it preventatively, but it could be one of those things like fire ladders where you're not supposed to reuse them after deploying.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

All - I've put a deposit down on a new 2023 Premium AWD with EXT battery and I'm stuck waiting on two recalls to clear (the 12v battery lockout recall and the backup camera recall).

That said, I did a search on these forums to see if other owners of Mach E's have any thoughts or tips on how best to mitigate the risk of HVB fires. To be clear, I am well aware that these risks are extremely small based on the current data. So, I am not wanting to debate safety of EVs vs ICE or Hybrids. Rather, I would like to steer the discussion towards if the worst were to happen, how might an EV owner (Mach E) specifically best prepare their home and family for such an event either at home or on the road? What are best (and reasonable) preventative measures that can be taken?

Additional comments/Questions I have:
-I do not currently have an EVSE installed at my house--I am currently getting quotes to hardwire a chargepoint charger via licensed electrician. I have reviewed various other threads on here related to charger install. With each of the electricians, I have stressed the importance of proper install and having things done per the code. I also am looking to have a surge protection device installed for the EV.
-Thoughts on charging in garage vs outdoors related to safety? I've read a wide range of opinions on this. My home has an attached garage. Installing outdoors isn't out of the question, but we do have a lot of trees near our driveway and I'm not sure parking outdoors is going to give a significant level of mitigation to our home, other vehicles, and neighbors.
-I've read through the owners manual, so understand that overcharging and discharging fully the battery will accelerate the wear on the battery.

I appreciate everyone's feedback. While I do believe that the risks are low, I still seem to think that the industry, public, and first responders may not have clear guidelines on how to handle such an event--particularly in rural areas of the US like where I am located.`

Are these mud flaps from Ford Accessories or after market? They look like the $120 ones from Ford.

 

[ReverendPete]

At least prevent spread until responders can get there and decide what to do.

Yeah... I think what they would do is try to move the vehicle to a safer location, cover it with a fire blanket, and let it burn itself out. At least if the battery has already reached thermal runaway. I think they have special water cannons to slide under the car and try to cool the battery tray before it hits thermal runaway. But if they don't get it in time, they don't really have much of a way to put it out, they just try to minimize collateral damage.

FWIW, my car is in my garage every night, and this is not something I waste much time thinking about...

 

[RickMachE]

There is such a thing as going too far. Since a gas vehicle has a higher chance of catching fire, if you didn't take extraordinary steps when you had an ICE vehicle, why now? If someone is fearful of EVs, they might want to rethink owning one. No need for unnecessary stress especially over a non-issue.

Appreciate the feedback so far.

Does anyone have experience with heat detectors? Consumer Reports was recommending these for garages over smoke detectors (general car fire prevention measure). But reading more, there are detectors now that pick up on battery gases--anyone familiar with these?

Technically what you want is a rate-of-rise detector. Hard to come by. I have a SimpliSafe system, so I got an extra temp detector, designed for detecting freezing conditions, but set it to 100 degrees. Max setting is 127 degrees. During our recent heatwave, when it was in the high 90s with a heat index over 100, it never got more than 89 when I checked. When it goes off, it shows "EV Car Fire?" so if the central dispatch can't reach me, they have an idea what is going on.

I did this because it cost me $25. We had two of 126 homes in our neighborhood burn to the ground. One was paint rags in the trash, no one home. The other was a car charging. No idea make, it was maybe 10, 12 years ago. No idea why. But it seemed sensible to spend $25. I have zero concerns though. Zero.

That's pretty interesting, thanks for sharing. Isn't cheap, but if it prevents fire spread to the rest of the house, etc, small price to pay to protect family and house. At least prevent spread until responders can get there and decide what to do.

That said, my only concern is deploying it in a garage when a fire has already started--enclosed space will trap the fumes which I've read are pretty bad and flammable. So, I think the best way to utilize something like this would be to use it preventatively, but it could be one of those things like fire ladders where you're not supposed to reuse them after deploying.

No untrained person lacking the proper fire retardant clothing and SCBA should ever attempt to use one of those blankets. Your primary goal is to GET OUT!

We have battery 40v tools in the garage. I never leave those chargers plugged in overnight, I plug them in and set a timer. But I don't think twice about charging my phone and watch nightly.

 

[Mach1E]

Am i mistaken? Has there been even a single fire "in the wild" of a mache? Not true of bolts or teslas....

Yes, there are even a few videos here.

That said, it’s super rare.

For the OP, what can you do if your Mach E catches fire?

Call 911, get away from it.

Fire sprinklers won’t do squat. Fire blankets would be extremely dangerous to attempt.

Mitigation would be just to keep the car away from the house.

So your best bet, if you don’t want to park elsewhere, is alarms. Smoke, heat, etc.

Make sure you have a fire proof door between the garage and the house to give you time to escape in the VERY unlikely event of a fire.

And in case anyone thinks fire sprinklers would put it out….. exhibit A- even the ocean doesn’t put it out. It’s a chemical reaction that creates its own oxygen.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/the-ocean-can’t-put-a-battery-fire-out.30935/

 

[bbulkow]

Yes, there are even a few videos here.

That said, it’s super rare.

For the OP, what can you do if your Mach E catches fire?

Call 911, get away from it.

Fire sprinklers won’t do squat. Fire blankets would be extremely dangerous to attempt.

Mitigation would be just to keep the car away from the house.

So your best bet, if you don’t want to park elsewhere, is alarms. Smoke, heat, etc.

Make sure you have a fire proof door between the garage and the house to give you time to escape in the VERY unlikely event of a fire.

And in case anyone thinks fire sprinklers would put it out….. exhibit A- even the ocean doesn’t put it out. It’s a chemical reaction that creates its own oxygen.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/the-ocean-can’t-put-a-battery-fire-out.30935/

Can you post a link? You say there are "a few".
This is the only one I can find:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-e-catches-fire-on-highway.25421

And it's really peculiar because althought it was stated to be a main battery fire, there are no flames in the video. The MachE didn't fully catch fire. The people in the car were able to pull off and exit. As one commentator on that thread says, we've seen lots of cases where the entire car goes up like a roman candle.... but not the mache.

The gdansk pictures I referenced, they apparently weren't the main battery.

 

[tuminatr]

I would say the EVSE protects from most of this but you could look for a few things to help.

First buy a EVSE for you home from a quality brand and one that is intended to be mounted and not portable.

Second pay a quality electrician to install the circuit. Don't skimp, the first electrician that came out to quote the install wanted to install the minimum wire to support Ford supplied EVSE 32a. I did a little future planning and went with 4awg on a 50a circuit this would support 60A should I decide to upgrade. Ask about the different types of circuit breakers

Third either have the EVSE hard wired (best) or get an EVSE that has a temperature monitor in the plug

Fourth if you buy a plug type EVSE this is OK but don't unplug it as the sockets wear out and can cause fires. There are some commercial grade plugs that are better quality than what the big box stores sell.

 

[ChrisO]

On the discussion on sprinklers, they won’t put out an EV battery fire, but will put out a plug/charger fire, which is Much more likely. But of course still rare, especially if the charger is hardwired.

 

[Mach1E]

Can you post a link? You say there are "a few".
This is the only one I can find:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/mach-e-catches-fire-on-highway.25421

And it's really peculiar because althought it was stated to be a main battery fire, there are no flames in the video. The MachE didn't fully catch fire. The people in the car were able to pull off and exit. As one commentator on that thread says, we've seen lots of cases where the entire car goes up like a roman candle.... but not the mache.

The gdansk pictures I referenced, they apparently weren't the main battery.

It was this one I’ve seen posted here.

 

[Mach1E]

On the discussion on sprinklers, they won’t put out an EV battery fire, but will put out a plug/charger fire, which is Much more likely. But of course still rare, especially if the charger is hardwired.

Everything I’ve ever been told is to NOT put water on an electrical fire. ?‍

 

[Exodus D]

There is such a thing as going too far. Since a gas vehicle has a higher chance of catching fire, if you didn't take extraordinary steps when you had an ICE vehicle, why now? If someone is fearful of EVs, they might want to rethink owning one. No need for unnecessary stress especially over a non-issue.



Technically what you want is a rate-of-rise detector. Hard to come by. I have a SimpliSafe system, so I got an extra temp detector, designed for detecting freezing conditions, but set it to 100 degrees. Max setting is 127 degrees. During our recent heatwave, when it was in the high 90s with a heat index over 100, it never got more than 89 when I checked. When it goes off, it shows "EV Car Fire?" so if the central dispatch can't reach me, they have an idea what is going on.

I did this because it cost me $25. We had two of 126 homes in our neighborhood burn to the ground. One was paint rags in the trash, no one home. The other was a car charging. No idea make, it was maybe 10, 12 years ago. No idea why. But it seemed sensible to spend $25. I have zero concerns though. Zero.



No untrained person lacking the proper fire retardant clothing and SCBA should ever attempt to use one of those blankets. Your primary goal is to GET OUT!

We have battery 40v tools in the garage. I never leave those chargers plugged in overnight, I plug them in and set a timer. But I don't think twice about charging my phone and watch nightly.

I appreciate your feedback here. One comment I'll remind is that I was looking for 'reasonable' safety mitigation tips. But I agree with you that a fire blanket probably isn't reasonable for a non-professional because it would be too dangerous to use in a garage.

Please understand that I'm not being fearful of EV ownership, but still want to be as prepared as possible in the event something did occur. And I think we can all agree that while statistically less likely to occur with EV batteries vs ICE, if it did happen, the extent of damage to family and property would probably exceed that of an ICE fire.

 

[Exodus D]

Everything I’ve ever been told is to NOT put water on an electrical fire. ?‍

I believe this is a myth as this is really the best suppression technique first responders use in an EV fire. There is confusion about Li fires getting worse with water, but my understanding is that is with Li metal, whereas these batters are not made of Li metal. Water is used on these battery fires to cool the battery during the fire until it extinguishes.

 

[Exodus D]

On the discussion on sprinklers, they won’t put out an EV battery fire, but will put out a plug/charger fire, which is Much more likely. But of course still rare, especially if the charger is hardwired.

I agree that a sprinkler would not put it out, however I wonder if it would help prevent spread from the garage to the rest of the house?

 

[Exodus D]

Yes, there are even a few videos here.

That said, it’s super rare.

For the OP, what can you do if your Mach E catches fire?

Call 911, get away from it.

Fire sprinklers won’t do squat. Fire blankets would be extremely dangerous to attempt.

Mitigation would be just to keep the car away from the house.

So your best bet, if you don’t want to park elsewhere, is alarms. Smoke, heat, etc.

Make sure you have a fire proof door between the garage and the house to give you time to escape in the VERY unlikely event of a fire.

And in case anyone thinks fire sprinklers would put it out….. exhibit A- even the ocean doesn’t put it out. It’s a chemical reaction that creates its own oxygen.
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/the-ocean-can’t-put-a-battery-fire-out.30935/

I believe that salt water accelerates the chemical reaction which is different than fresh water.

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