Update on Mach-E launch progress from engineering friends in Mexico

ARK

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My main dealer has the battery packs listed at double the MSRP:
Standard : $40k
Extended: $52.3k

Another dealer 5 miles farther away shows these prices
Standard: $18k
Extended: $23.5k
Those markups are extreme, I wonder who would even consider purchasing these for the next several years. If you had a complete battery pack failure within 8 years or 100,000 miles, the warranty would cover it. If you needed a completely new pack because of what would have to surely be a severe accident, I don’t see how the insurance adjuster doesn’t declare that vehicle a total loss and cashes you out.
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ARK

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Our 62' pickup has been in the family since 67'. Aberation, yes, but one never knows, a first gen EV Mustang may have heirloom appeal.
Not even having the MME yet, I’m sort of toying around with this idea. I’ve had my 2006 Mustang GT for just about 15 years and I would like to keep it forever - would maybe want to do an EV conversion on it at some point. But also can’t keep buying cars and never selling them!
 

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Those markups are extreme, I wonder who would even consider purchasing these for the next several years. If you had a complete battery pack failure within 8 years or 100,000 miles, the warranty would cover it. If you needed a completely new pack because of what would have to surely be a severe accident, I don’t see how the insurance adjuster doesn’t declare that vehicle a total loss and cash you out.
Yep. Seems like the only practical reason most people would even consider paying for their own battery upgrade is if batteries get dramatically better (like twice the range). And even then, the high price would make that a pretty rare upgrade.

And I still suspect there's a fair chance that whatever super new batteries might exist later in the decade may not even work in a 2021 MME. Could be different shapes, sizes, charging power, wiring, etc.
 

eastern refugee

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Those markups are extreme, I wonder who would even consider purchasing these for the next several years. If you had a complete battery pack failure within 8 years or 100,000 miles, the warranty would cover it. If you needed a completely new pack because of what would have to surely be a severe accident, I don’t see how the insurance adjuster doesn’t declare that vehicle a total loss and cashes you out.

The MME has 6 battery units. In an accident maybe only one gets damaged. As such if $26000 is for 6 then one would be roughly $44-4500. On the average American car salvage value can be between 10-20%. In short the total damage would have to be in the 80-90% value of the car at the time of the accident. One battery pack won’t do it. Airbags run $3000 a piece. It would take significant damage to total out an MME.
 

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Higher frequencies have shorter ranges for the same power level, so the ultra wideband 5G will probably have to have a lot of towers close to the roads being travelled for a seamless reception while travelling. I just switched to Verizon in hopes that they will have UW5G in the Seattle area before long.
I doubt that will happen. You would require way too many towers and a car at highway speed would be switching from tower to tower extremely fast. Remember it is super short range and can't even penetrate walls. The nominal range is about 500m, but with special sw/he so far had been pushed to double that. 4g LTE can be 30 miles or more apart of each other.

(All numbers from quick Google searches.)
 


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I doubt that will happen. You would require way too many towers and a car at highway speed would be switching from tower to tower extremely fast. Remember it is super short range and can't even penetrate walls. The nominal range is about 500m, but with special sw/he so far had been pushed to double that. 4g LTE can be 30 miles or more apart of each other.

(All numbers from quick Google searches.)
The Ultrawideband 5G is designed to be used inside stadiums and other close in areas (city centers, etc.). A lot of bandwidth for a lot of people in a small area.
 

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The MME has 6 battery units. In an accident maybe only one gets damaged. As such if $26000 is for 6 then one would be roughly $44-4500. On the average American car salvage value can be between 10-20%. In short the total damage would have to be in the 80-90% value of the car at the time of the accident. One battery pack won’t do it. Airbags run $3000 a piece. It would take significant damage to total out an MME.
It has 10-12 modules, not 6. You can check out the diagrams from parts.ford.com, that I've previously posted, or look at the actual photographs from inside the pack here: https://jalopnik.com/a-look-at-the-engineering-behind-the-2021-ford-mustang-1839911078

Module pricing is above $4k each at the moment.

I don't know, but it seems to me unlikely that a vehicle collision would result in just a single module being damaged. Wouldn't that mean that the vehicle was somehow sharply punctured from underneath? I guess maybe this could happen if someone tried to lift the car and didn't use its lift points.

For a side collision, it looks like the pack is protected by the vehicle frame. If the frame is damaged, then probably multiple modules will be, and likelihood of being totaled seems high but I'm only guessing. You have way more experience in this area than I do, so I'd defer to your educated guess/judgment.

Remember too that the federal tax credit causes a brand new Mustang Mach-E's value to be reduced by an additional $7,500 right off the bat, compared to vehicles that don't get such credits. I imagine in places like California, it's reduced even further since you have significant state credits.
 
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The Ultrawideband 5G is designed to be used inside stadiums and other close in areas (city centers, etc.). A lot of bandwidth for a lot of people in a small area.
It is also planned for fixed wireless broadband in more rural areas where dsl/satellite/fm radio are the only options.
Also....wireless broadband in non-rural areas controlled by a different incumbent carrier (i.e. AT&T could use this to provide broadband service in Century Link territory without laying copper/fiber the whole way).
 

eastern refugee

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It has 10-12 modules, not 6. You can check out the diagrams from parts.ford.com, that I've previously posted, or look at the actual photographs from inside the pack here: https://jalopnik.com/a-look-at-the-engineering-behind-the-2021-ford-mustang-1839911078

Module pricing is above $4k each at the moment.

I don't know, but it seems to me unlikely that a vehicle collision would result in just a single module being damaged. Wouldn't that mean that the vehicle was somehow sharply punctured from underneath? I guess maybe this could happen if someone tried to lift the car and didn't use its lift points.

For a side collision, it looks like the pack is protected by the vehicle frame. If the frame is damaged, then probably multiple modules will be, and likelihood of being totaled seems high but I'm only guessing. You have way more experience in this area than I do, so I'd defer to your educated guess/judgment.

Remember too that the federal tax credit causes a brand new Mustang Mach-E's value to be reduced by an additional $7,500 right off the bat, compared to vehicles that don't get such credits. I imagine in places like California, it's reduced even further since you have significant state credits.
Thanks for the info on the modules. My opinion is that Ford designed this car for crash impacts. When cars have accidents lower body is usually not the issue. It is usually above the floor level. Think about it. Cars are built with crash impact zones. Where the batteries are located below the floor is a very protected area. Tesla’s are totaled out ALL of the time due to the all aluminum frame and NOT the battery. This is THE why both the Y and 3 are NOT all aluminum.

Tax credits have ZERO impact on market value. If you buy a car and put down $7500 in cash does that mean that the value drops by $7500?? No. Is a house with solar panels less than the same without?? NO. In terms of houses on a side note if the majority of the houses in the neighborhood have solar and the one you want does not the value of the house is LESS. Less because all of the other houses have a significant option that yours does not. Anyway off topic.

Bottom line is that the chances of battery damage in the car is rare. Tesla’s that I have insured and been in accidents have never had battery damage. Damage everywhere else.
 

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When cars have accidents lower body is usually not the issue. It is usually above the floor level.
Good point, thanks.

Tax credits have ZERO impact on market value. If you buy a car and put down $7500 in cash does that mean that the value drops by $7500??
I wouldn't buy your Mach-E for $50k when I can buy a brand new one for $50k and also get $7,500 back from Uncle Sam. For me to buy yours, it'd need to be below $42,500. So at least in my view, while a new vehicle still benefits from tax credits, the market value of its used equivalent is lessened by at least the amount of those credits.
 

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Good point, thanks.



I wouldn't buy your Mach-E for $50k when I can buy a brand new one for $50k and also get $7,500 back from Uncle Sam. For me to buy yours, it'd need to be below $42,500. So at least in my view, while a new vehicle still benefits from tax credits, the market value of its used equivalent is lessened by at least the amount of those credits.
What you would do and what market value is are apple and oranges. Case in point. Ford Raptor. In Cali the raptor is up charged by $25,000. the market value on a used 5.7 L V 8 Raptor is MORE then it sold for because you cannot get that engine any more. No one cares about the Original mark up. They care about the specific truck.

In the car of the FE for example you cannot buy it. Will the market value be more??? No idea. What I can say is that no one looks at the tax credit for buying a used car. It will likely be 3 years or more before you ever see a used MME for sale.
 

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I wouldn't buy your Mach-E for $50k when I can buy a brand new one for $50k and also get $7,500 back from Uncle Sam. For me to buy yours, it'd need to be below $42,500. So at least in my view, while a new vehicle still benefits from tax credits, the market value of its used equivalent is lessened by at least the amount of those credits.
Exactly. Market value is what the buyer will pay. That includes any subsidies like tax credits. I'm really paying $50k net for my $60k FE. I wouldn't pay $60k. Since everyone in this market gets $10k in tax credit, the market value is $50k.
 
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eastern refugee

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Exactly. Market value is what the buyer will pay. That includes any subsidies like tax credits. I'm really paying $50k net for my $60k FE. I wouldn't pay $60k. Since everyone in this market gets $10k in tax credit, the market value is $50k.
Actually that is not true. Market value means what the average SELLING price is and NOT what you may pay. If the car is listed for $60,000 in the same or nearby zip codes then that is the market value. This is THE why dealerships mark up Raptors. It does not matter what you pay but rather what the car sells for new or used.
 

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In the car of the FE for example you cannot buy it. Will the market value be more??? No idea. What I can say is that no one looks at the tax credit for buying a used car. It will likely be 3 years or more before you ever see a used MME for sale
There may be a premium for limited supply relative to demand, yes. But that would be a separate factor than the net price (after tax credits) that people are paying now to buy them new.
 

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Remember too that the federal tax credit causes a brand new Mustang Mach-E's value to be reduced by an additional $7,500 right off the bat, compared to vehicles that don't get such credits. I imagine in places like California, it's reduced even further since you have significant state credits.
I wonder if that statement is accurate. It is my understanding that the federal EV tax credit does NOT reduce the cost of purchasing an EV immediately. The federal tax credit for EVs is a maximum of $7,500, that will/may appear as a credit once one has filed his/her federal taxes. And, that FULL $7,500 will only appear if one has paid at least $7500 in federal taxes.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Update on Mach-E launch progress from engineering friends in Mexico EV Tax Credit.JPG


Source: https://nationaltaxreports.com/tax-credits-for-electric-cars/
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